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  #41  
Old 09-10-2019, 08:44 PM
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paintpollz paintpollz is offline
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Originally Posted by bloup101 View Post
Maybe this is could help for cross reference. https://www.amazon.ca/09359409-Manif.../dp/B01GX19CWQ
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Originally Posted by bloup101 View Post
From my quick research the cross reference ACDelco map sensor part number is 213-4434
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Originally Posted by bloup101 View Post
My understanding is that you installed a 2 BAR map sensor #12615136 and the oem map sensor is 1 BAR #09359409
ugh. I suck, bad. my life:



bloup, what would I do without you.

Thanks.
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  #42  
Old 09-12-2019, 10:27 AM
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The easiest way to kill an ECM is to reverse-connect the battery cables and turn the key to ON.

Look at the ECM with the engine cover(s) open- is it directly under the gap between panels? If so, it should have a metal piece over it, to prevent water dripping onto it. MC had some problems in 1999/2000 with some of the ECM pins failing because water got in. Someone probing the back of the terminals could have damaged the weather seals on some of the wires, too.

I don't have time to read the whole thread, but I haven't seen any indication that you have checked for codes, as I recommended in the other thread. Do that- any bad sensors that report to the ECM will cause a code to be stored, unless it was just a glitch and in that case, it generally happens infrequently.

If the engine is warmed up, do you have any problem re-starting it? If so, open the throttle a bit and see if it starts more easily. That could indicate a bad ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature) sensor reading high resistance, making the ECM deliver more fuel than it needs.

Does the exhaust smell like gasoline and does the transom have black smudges around the exhaust ports? This would reinforce the thought that the ECT is bad.
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  #43  
Old 09-12-2019, 10:57 AM
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Thanks Jim. See my responses below:

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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
The easiest way to kill an ECM is to reverse-connect the battery cables and turn the key to ON.
Haven't done that.

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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
Look at the ECM with the engine cover(s) open- is it directly under the gap between panels? If so, it should have a metal piece over it, to prevent water dripping onto it. MC had some problems in 1999/2000 with some of the ECM pins failing because water got in. Someone probing the back of the terminals could have damaged the weather seals on some of the wires, too.
Yes it is. I will check this.

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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
I don't have time to read the whole thread, but I haven't seen any indication that you have checked for codes, as I recommended in the other thread. Do that- any bad sensors that report to the ECM will cause a code to be stored, unless it was just a glitch and in that case, it generally happens infrequently.
Correct, however the boat has never thrown a CEL in the 5 years I've owned it and including now with the most recent issues (unless I was unplugging the MAP). I'm assuming there would be no codes if it has never throw a CEL? I've read on various forums that even if a map sensor is on the fritz the engine won't necessarily throw a code. Which is what I'm kind of hoping for at this point. The original map sensor that was on the boat was all caked up with oil and grease. It's because when I cleaned the K&N air filter I sprayed the filter oil on it, whoops. The new 1 bar MAP sensor comes in the mail today. Might not be able to test until next week depending on what time it comes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimN View Post
If the engine is warmed up, do you have any problem re-starting it? If so, open the throttle a bit and see if it starts more easily. That could indicate a bad ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature) sensor reading high resistance, making the ECM deliver more fuel than it needs.
Negative, no issues restarting. Engine starts fine warm or cold.

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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
Does the exhaust smell like gasoline and does the transom have black smudges around the exhaust ports? This would reinforce the thought that the ECT is bad.
Sometimes I can smell gas, sometimes I can't. There are no leaks and the fuel pump is new. No black smudges. It seems like the boat is very confused on how much fuel to put into the engine. Almost like it's running on limp mode, but again no CELs.
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  #44  
Old 09-12-2019, 06:12 PM
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I swapped in the new MAP sensor any no change, still sluggish power and backfiring. I did check the exhaust manifolds and the starboard side to too hot to touch. The port side is normal temperature. I’m assuming something is not right there. Engine is holding normal operating temp of 160. No CELs

Why would that be?

I remember last time so checked the exhaust in the driveway there was water flowing out both ends. It seemed like even flow but I didn’t study it for long.
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  #45  
Old 09-12-2019, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by paintpollz View Post
I swapped in the new MAP sensor any no change, still sluggish power and backfiring. I did check the exhaust manifolds and the starboard side to too hot to touch. The port side is normal temperature. Iím assuming something is not right there. Engine is holding normal operating temp of 160. No CELs

Why would that be?

I remember last time so checked the exhaust in the driveway there was water flowing out both ends. It seemed like even flow but I didnít study it for long.
Make sure the impeller is good- one side being hot is usually caused by poor raw water flow. Clear out any debris from the oil cooler, too.

Backfiring isnít caused by a bad MAP sensor- how old are the plugs and plug wires? If possible, run it at night and look for arcing between plug wires, plug wires and metal- anywhere you shouldnít have spark. Old wires have more resistance and crossfirevcan be the result.
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  #46  
Old 09-12-2019, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
Make sure the impeller is good- one side being hot is usually caused by poor raw water flow. Clear out any debris from the oil cooler, too.

Backfiring isnít caused by a bad MAP sensor- how old are the plugs and plug wires? If possible, run it at night and look for arcing between plug wires, plug wires and metal- anywhere you shouldnít have spark. Old wires have more resistance and crossfirevcan be the result.
Iíll check the impeller and trans cooler. Itís been a while, maybe 50 hours since I put it the last impeller in.

Plugs maybe 50 hours on them, you can see all 8 in one of my earlier posts, to me they look fine. Wires are original to the boat, somewhere between 650-700 hours. There was no dry rotting or cracked boots on any of the wires. Iíll run at night to check for arching.
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  #47  
Old 09-12-2019, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by paintpollz View Post
Iíll check the impeller and trans cooler. Itís been a while, maybe 50 hours since I put it the last impeller in.

Plugs maybe 50 hours on them, you can see all 8 in one of my earlier posts, to me they look fine. Wires are original to the boat, somewhere between 650-700 hours. There was no dry rotting or cracked boots on any of the wires. Iíll run at night to check for arching.
Itís not the covering that matters, itís the conductive material. These arenít metal wire, itís graphite and over time, it crystallizes and then it cracks.

5 years is a good time for replacement. Use a spark tester or if possible, a scope, to check the intensity.
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  #48  
Old 09-12-2019, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JimN View Post
Itís not the covering that matters, itís the conductive material. These arenít metal wire, itís graphite and over time, it crystallizes and then it cracks.

5 years is a good time for replacement. Use a spark tester or if possible, a scope, to check the intensity.
I ordered the spark tester. I will do the spray test as well.

I'm away from home until Monday, I hope to do it Monday night and will report back.

Thanks.
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  #49  
Old 09-13-2019, 07:36 AM
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Do you know what version MEFI you have? Might be a good idea to check codes at the DLC. I've read before that certain codes can be stored in the ECM that will not trip a CEL at the dash.

You can make your own code tester:

https://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/MEFI/
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  #50  
Old 09-13-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dtm8119 View Post
Do you know what version MEFI you have? Might be a good idea to check codes at the DLC. I've read before that certain codes can be stored in the ECM that will not trip a CEL at the dash.

You can make your own code tester:

https://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/MEFI/
It's either 3 or 4, I will have to research. thanks

The power in this boat is so reduced. The backfiring occurs when I drop the throttle for holeshot only. Other than that I would say the acceleration is about 15-20% of normal operation, and the top speed is now only 28 mph. The engine does feel like it's running rougher, but smooths out a little as you get up to speed.
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