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  • rtw_travel1
    replied
    Originally posted by boscoman View Post
    Beginner slalom skier here. For those using an x14v for slalom skiing, is there anything you're doing to calm down the wake. I'm such a beginner that I'm 15 off at 30 mph. Still using the deep v handle to get up.
    I think the X14V is better at skiing than other VDrives, and its probably better than any direct drive at surfing. We are very happy with the compromise between all the water sports we do.

    We ski a lot. The slower you go, the higher the wake is. Even if you can get up to 32mph, you will see an improvement.

    Other things we do are straight forward: put the spotter in the bow spotter's seat and don't bring more than two others in the boat, but preferably bring just the spotter. The center tab seems to help a bit as does trying to run with less gas in the tank, but you can't overcome overcome the vdrive transmission weight and the weight of a V8 at the stern.

    Leave a comment:


  • boscoman
    replied
    x14v favorable slalom wake

    Beginner slalom skier here. For those using an x14v for slalom skiing, is there anything you're doing to calm down the wake. I'm such a beginner that I'm 15 off at 30 mph. Still using the deep v handle to get up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double D
    replied
    SO, I didn't order a 1253 or 1171 to test, yet!! However, based on a suggestion from 93Prostar190 I asked JKSKI what prop he was running on his 2008 40th Anniversary ProStar 197 with the MCX and 1:1.5 Tranny, and he said he is running an OJ 13" x 14.5 - 4-Blade and that boat pulls great. Being a superstar of a person, jkski let me borrow his spare prop so I was able to do a quick test on Friday evening on a short ski lake. I tried to take video like you did Doc but my GoPro malfunctioned....

    Here is what I did:
    - Used my analog rpm and mph gauges and my main source
    - Used my iphone GPS to compare speeds (was hoping to compare on video)
    - My brother timed me on the 0-30 mph holeshot.

    Did some starts with no skier.
    1-30 = 7.18 Seconds
    Top speed of 46 mph at 5000 rpm (seems odd since my 1281 was 5600??)
    33 mph at 3500 rpm.

    Since I did 0-30 instead of 0-35,not sure I picked anything up.
    I'll need to confirm the 5600 on the 1281
    On a side side note, being a brand new or refurbished CNC prop, I was getting the CNC whine at no wake speed.

    So the next thing was to ski it.

    The holeshot and my pull up seemed stronger and better. Not great, but better.
    There was no give in the boat when doing my pull across the wake. It was solid.
    I was using RPM mode on PP so we needed to adjust that down a couple hundred to get to my typical ski speed of 33 mph. First couple runs were showing 36, 35, 34 etc.

    HERE IS THE KICKER: I cant find that exact prop. I searched the OJ web site and no matching prop. I sent Eric an email so we'll see what he says Monday.

    There is a closely matching Acme 2709 at 13.25 x 14.5.

    I will do some more testing over the next couple weeks since I have the 4-blade for a bit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double D
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc Haze View Post
    Well, the data is in and the accelerometer doesn’t lie. 5.9 to 30 with the stock prop(blue), and 6.4 with the 1253(orange). Left side numbers are mph x 100. On the 1253 run I yanked the throttle back at 35 mph. I didn’t realize I should have ran it out further to see it keep pulling away from the stock one. 1253 topped out at 46-47 mph vs 44. For me the big change was 300 rpm less down to 3200 rpm at a 30 mph cruise and A LOT more traction at idle/no wake zone speeds. With the stock prop, the throttle was closing down to 60% to limit max revs. 5650 is the programmed max but it won’t let you get near it as if the crank will jump overboard if you hit that number once. Lots of conservativeness on that. With the 1253 it was still closing to about 75%. So there is a little more to be had at the top end, but it’s probably best left for when there is more weight in the boat. In the videos you can see how the rpms jump to about 4500 with the stock prop under full load, but only 3500 with the 1253. Definitely has more bite. Initial impression are that it’s definitely a good prop option for the ly6. Really doesn’t feel much slower, and calms down the revs at cruising as well as adding control at idle speeds. If my kids get into wake sports and I end up using ballast frequently, or if I feel the slalom start is suffering too much, I may switch to the 1171 which is a 13x13x.080. I don’t think there’s much skiing in my future for this year, so putting it through its paces will have to wait till next year. The 1253 and the 1171 are probably going to be the two best props in the acme lineup unless your adding ballast beyond factory. The stock prop is still a good choice for a heavy load, so I certainly won’t get rid of it. But that’s just my own assessment.


    https://youtu.be/N1Q5b992nAs
    https://youtu.be/UTaND_xPcYY
    https://youtu.be/svWSotrHCwc
    Originally posted by Doc Haze View Post
    I’d say it’s toward the upper end of an acceptable amount of load, but I definitely like the lower rpm at cruising. We do tend to cruise the boat for about an hour at a time, so it calms it down a bit. The motor makes its best power between 3000-5500 rpm, and the prop will slip to a little over 3000 under full power, so it’s not being lugged down too far. At cruise, it’s not using much effort to maintain 25-30 mph based on the vacuum readings. As I said, if I end up using the boat more for wake sports, I would probably go down a size. The stock prop was definitely chosen to not overtax the motor if the boat is weighted down with full ballast and all bodies on board, but if your not going to run it like that all the time, there’s better options. A lot comes down to your own personal feel and how you use it. Without the friction losses of a geared trans, the MCX with a 1:1 isn’t really that far behind the ly6. The MCX shaft speed will be higher, so you’ll probably be down 1-2” in pitch to get very similar performance.

    First, let me say thank you for the nice work. A little late in responding since I am working in CA this week. Secondly, I kinda dig the 2007 analog gauges, including the ballast tanks. Cool stuff. Third; great videos.

    So a few questions:
    - Did the accelerometer chart come from the diagnostic tool?
    - Was the stopwatch a back up?

    When I did my numbers I was timing to 35 mph so not sure if 5 mph would add 1.55 seconds. Doubt it, but worth me checking to 30 mph.

    Since we both agree that the RPM change is much more favorable with the 1281 and 1253, I'm really interested in sampling the 1171 now so we can add that to the mix, even though the 1253 sounds like a great choice as well.

    My use of the boat is all Slalom and Barefoot so I am really interested in the hole shot, but don't want to go back to the RPM roar of the 13x12.

    The next big question for me, how would the change in prop effect the slalom wake...
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc Haze
    replied
    I’d say it’s toward the upper end of an acceptable amount of load, but I definitely like the lower rpm at cruising. We do tend to cruise the boat for about an hour at a time, so it calms it down a bit. The motor makes its best power between 3000-5500 rpm, and the prop will slip to a little over 3000 under full power, so it’s not being lugged down too far. At cruise, it’s not using much effort to maintain 25-30 mph based on the vacuum readings. As I said, if I end up using the boat more for wake sports, I would probably go down a size. The stock prop was definitely chosen to not overtax the motor if the boat is weighted down with full ballast and all bodies on board, but if your not going to run it like that all the time, there’s better options. A lot comes down to your own personal feel and how you use it. Without the friction losses of a geared trans, the MCX with a 1:1 isn’t really that far behind the ly6. The MCX shaft speed will be higher, so you’ll probably be down 1-2” in pitch to get very similar performance.

    Leave a comment:


  • 93Prostar190
    replied
    Doc thanks for sharing, guessing DoubleD will be by shortly as well to say thanks but will love the graphs and videos!

    I only have a tiny MCX so barely feel qualified to comment.

    As it relates to the torque curve of your motor, are you happier with the lower RPM’s but feel that it is not putting too much load in the engine? Or still in the ideal HP/Torque range for cruising speed and acceleration?

    I appreciate your measurements since boats, various transmissions and props are likely not tested as much as we would hope at the factory. Thanks for posting!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc Haze
    replied
    Well, the data is in and the accelerometer doesn’t lie. 5.9 to 30 with the stock prop(blue), and 6.4 with the 1253(orange). Left side numbers are mph x 100. On the 1253 run I yanked the throttle back at 35 mph. I didn’t realize I should have ran it out further to see it keep pulling away from the stock one. 1253 topped out at 46-47 mph vs 44. For me the big change was 300 rpm less down to 3200 rpm at a 30 mph cruise and A LOT more traction at idle/no wake zone speeds. With the stock prop, the throttle was closing down to 60% to limit max revs. 5650 is the programmed max but it won’t let you get near it as if the crank will jump overboard if you hit that number once. Lots of conservativeness on that. With the 1253 it was still closing to about 75%. So there is a little more to be had at the top end, but it’s probably best left for when there is more weight in the boat. In the videos you can see how the rpms jump to about 4500 with the stock prop under full load, but only 3500 with the 1253. Definitely has more bite. Initial impression are that it’s definitely a good prop option for the ly6. Really doesn’t feel much slower, and calms down the revs at cruising as well as adding control at idle speeds. If my kids get into wake sports and I end up using ballast frequently, or if I feel the slalom start is suffering too much, I may switch to the 1171 which is a 13x13x.080. I don’t think there’s much skiing in my future for this year, so putting it through its paces will have to wait till next year. The 1253 and the 1171 are probably going to be the two best props in the acme lineup unless your adding ballast beyond factory. The stock prop is still a good choice for a heavy load, so I certainly won’t get rid of it. But that’s just my own assessment.


    https://youtu.be/N1Q5b992nAs
    https://youtu.be/UTaND_xPcYY
    https://youtu.be/svWSotrHCwc
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc Haze
    replied
    The 15 pitch might be a little much. With the stock prop it rips out of the hole better than the 190 pro star barefoot with the 454 I had. I know I might loose a little of that to get a calmer cruising rpm, but the question is, how much. I’ll do a run with the stocker and video it, swap the prop on my lift, re-dunk it, and do the same thing. This way they will be back to back. Ill post them on YouTube and put the links up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Double D
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc Haze View Post
    Well, there it is. Hopefully I’ll get to do a comparison this coming week.

    Can’t wait to see what you find out. I ran my boat tonight through a course with another friend tonight and had a similar comment, it just doesn’t seem to pop out of the hole”. Maybe we are all used to small prostars??

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc Haze
    replied
    Well, there it is. Hopefully I’ll get to do a comparison this coming week.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Double D
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc Haze View Post
    He’s all better. We tell him he looks like Harry Potter now. So I just pulled the trigger on the 1253. Ordered it from nettles, so hopefully I’ll get it soon and compare it to the stocker. I watched the vids, and it sounds like mine. I think the intake noise is louder than the exhaust from the drivers seat. Sounds like a jet engine about to suck you in. This boat is still quieter than my 240 with the 454 and mufflers. I was dragging behind it on the slalom ski listening to it thinking how mellow it sounded compared to the big block. Definitely turning more revs though. 3800 vs 3100. Which prop was on in the videos?
    The stock 13x12 was in the cruising video (first day on water) and the Acme 1281 was on with the barefoot video. I like to joke that the driver in the barefoot video was the bigger culprit for the footer not getting up. Typical long line start for us is to go 25 mph until the footer cheeks out, then hit it. The guy is a great driver but was new to the boat and was overshooting his speed each time. You can hear me on the second pull; "Too Fast".

    I cant wait to see the performance on the 1253. Thanks!

    I also had this other thread related to the noise. Happy reading..
    https://teamtalk.mastercraft.com/sho...d.php?t=105000
    Last edited by Double D; 09-14-2021, 11:00 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc Haze
    replied
    He’s all better. We tell him he looks like Harry Potter now. So I just pulled the trigger on the 1253. Ordered it from nettles, so hopefully I’ll get it soon and compare it to the stocker. I watched the vids, and it sounds like mine. I think the intake noise is louder than the exhaust from the drivers seat. Sounds like a jet engine about to suck you in. This boat is still quieter than my 240 with the 454 and mufflers. I was dragging behind it on the slalom ski listening to it thinking how mellow it sounded compared to the big block. Definitely turning more revs though. 3800 vs 3100. Which prop was on in the videos?

    Leave a comment:


  • Double D
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc Haze View Post
    The step option looks like a very useful mod. The custom cut padding looks great and is probably the way to go for low maintenance, but that teak step….man, that’s a thing of beauty. My 8 yo son was climbing in after kneeboarding and slipped or tripped on that cushion and fell and split his eyebrow open on the side grab handle. Took four stitches to fix it, so I’m sure this will be in my near future.

    I’m still looking into the propeller issue. The cup has to do with channeling water off the trailing edge of the blade. It plays into efficiency, but that translates to changing the slip percentage. That’s why it commonly associated with acting like a change in pitch. It works different though. It gives the water a last little high speed fling for a lack of a better explanation. It’s something you want more of for higher speeds, but less of for lower speeds. I’m looking to improve in the slalom ski range, so I’m looking at adding cup as an alternative to just more pitch.

    Being I’m looking at the higher speed, i want to try to stay with a 3 blade to not increase surface area drag and probably stick with a 13” diameter to keep blade tip speeds down, which is another drag contributor. Our boats with the 1.22 trans fall in that no mans land between the faster turning 1:1 ski boats with the small three blades and the slower turning 1.5:1 wake board boats with the bigger four blade props. I think master craft compromised when they probably shouldn’t have. The boat is way better at being a ski boat than a wakeboard boat, so it probably would have been better with a 1:1 trans, and then people could’ve propped it down if they were adding extra ballast. The 1.22 trans adds 4-5% parasitic loss to the shaft horsepower measurement, which is probably why the MCX powered boats with 1:1 really aren’t that much slower. We only are putting maybe 30 hp more to the prop.

    So my stock prop is an OJ 13x12 which I confirmed with master craft was stock for an ‘07. I’m not sure the cup, as there is no part number stamped on it. The OJ and acme props are very different blade design wise, so there’s no real way to compare them just based on specs. This would put it as a 346 or 348. But I would guess the 346, as that’s the standard cup model. They have the 364 which is a 13x13 with .110 cup which would certainly be a step in the right direction. I just think the boat could use more, but they don’t offer a 14” pitch. Acme does with the 1253, but like i said, who knows if it would be remotely close to acting like what I would expect. I think it’s going to come down to figuring if the boat is artificially capping its wot rpm or not.

    Maybe there is a 14” diameter prop that would be magic for wake sports. Who knows? There’s so many variables.

    Has anyone gotten these things to hit a gps verified 50 mph? In theory a 14” pitch should get me there.
    Originally posted by Doc Haze View Post
    My wife, brother and dad drive the boat when I’m slalom skiing and all three have said that they never had to use anything close to full throttle to get me up, but more that at slalom speeds they complain that the throttle is super touchy. I can feel them monkey with it as I ski. I haven’t taught them to use the cruise control yet. I’m pretty sure the boat propped as it is would easily do two slalom skiers from deep starts. I’d like to calm it down a little, and maybe reap the benefit of some extra top end and calmer cruising rpm.

    Wow, sorry about what happened to your son. I hate when peeps fall on the boat.

    Let me know what information you need on the step. I have drawings and contacts.

    Yeah, I have been working with 3 other users with the same boat, engine, trans, combination and they have all confirmed their boat has the 13x12 and came that way, as did mine. But like you said, the 1.22 falls in no-mans land.

    Since I have the Acme 1281 (13.25 x 15") and have fed you details on holeshot and rpms, it might be worth getting and testing a 1253 (13 x 14) and get the similar numbers, with the understanding you can return it. I figure we would lose the top end of 47 mph with the smaller pitch but might pick up something on hole shot. The RPM numbers at 35MPH is another question I have because as I mentioned before, my boat came with no mufflers and that 6 liter has a nasty cackle.

    When you say the throttle is super touchy, do you mean it moves too easy and hard to keep steady, or is it what we both mentioned and they boat just jumps quick at the mid range speeds?

    For reference, here are two videos of it before I added turn down tips.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PSvLDRTDtM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7uCgsglI-Q

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnE
    replied
    When I asked my old friend/ dealer about checking the transmission fluid he said "if it isn't in the bilge, don't worry about it" FWIW. That was about the level, not the condition....

    Leave a comment:


  • mikeg205
    replied
    Get to running temp on water... then check level as fast as u can. Threading tra s dip stick just makes it tighter not deeper... does that read bad or is it just me.. lol

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:

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