Who says boat lifts can't have runways?

[LDA6339]

You learn something new every day. Am I reading that there's no way to do it safely? Or that some changes need to be made to make it safe?

[LDA6339]

I just unplugged the lights until I can figure this whole thing out bythe way. I really appreciate you guys not holding back with letting me know its unsafe. I just saw the label waterproof and thought it would look cool. If there's a way to do it safely I'd like to know, if not I'll have no choice but to pull em out completely.

[FoggyNogginz]

By using a 12v DC system, you would in theory alleviate the risk of shock inherent in your current AC setup.

Not entirely, but there is certainly less risk. To quote the movie Running Scared, "It's not the volts that get ya... it's the amps".

The three basic*factors*that determine what kind of shock you experience are the amplitude of the current, the duration of the current passing through the body, and the frequency.

Direct Currents actually have zero frequency, as the current is constant. However, there are physiological effects during electrocution no matter what type of current. DC current will make a single continuous contraction of the muscles compared to AC current, which will make a series of contractions depending on the frequency it is supplied at. In terms of fatalities, both kill, but much higher milliamps (current) are required of DC current than AC current at the same voltage.

The voltage of the electric supply is only important as it ascertains the magnitude of the current. As Voltage = Current x Resistance, the bodily resistance is an important factor. Sweaty or wet persons have a lower body resistance and so they can be fatally electrocuted at lower voltages. i.e. This is a really bad idea to use non-sealed, non water-approved AC lighting on a boat dock.

[LDA6339]

The way it was explained to me was that by having the lights on a ground fault if something were to happen to the lights that caused them to start leaking electricity into the water the ground fault would trip and cut the power to bulbs. Is this not correct?

[markmcfarland]

The way it was explained to me was that by having the lights on a ground fault if something were to happen to the lights that caused them to start leaking electricity into the water the ground fault would trip and cut the power to bulbs. Is this not correct?

If it's working properly.

[markmcfarland]

I just unplugged the lights until I can figure this whole thing out bythe way. I really appreciate you guys not holding back with letting me know its unsafe. I just saw the label waterproof and thought it would look cool. If there's a way to do it safely I'd like to know, if not I'll have no choice but to pull em out completely.

What about one of those black lights like the enemy(I mean fishermen) use. If those are safe there has to be a way to do it.

[AKralk83]

In theory the GFCI would trip. I have seen to many GFCI's fail in the last 16 years to trust a 13$ device to protect my family, friends and pets from electrocution.


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[FoggyNogginz]

I just unplugged the lights until I can figure this whole thing out bythe way. I really appreciate you guys not holding back with letting me know its unsafe. I just saw the label waterproof and thought it would look cool. If there's a way to do it safely I'd like to know, if not I'll have no choice but to pull em out completely.

To do this safely, I would first verify that your lights say waterproof and submersible...not just water resistant. There is a huge difference as I am sure that you know. Many of these cheap rope lights are approved for outdoor use in the rain, an may even say waterproof... but not for submerged applications.

The proper system requires a specific IP rating stating "Ingress Protection" against the elements. This is a two part number that tells you what type of protection the system offers, to what depth, and for what duration. For more on this..see this chart:. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ip...ion-d_452.html. In my opinion, you want no less than an IP68 system, which interestingly is the same rating given to many of the newer splash-proof cell phones such as Samsung S7.

Next, I would certainly try to eliminate extension cords because these are very scary on boat docks since they can fall into the water, get connected by splashing, etc. A submersible system will include a DC power source (most come in varying line lengths to prevent splicing or extension cords), and perhaps most importantly, these systems will come with a depth rating telling you how deep they are approved for in each application. These systems are typically sold for underwater use in pools, hot tubs, etc, and they are very similar to the underwater LED lights that folks are adding to their boats these days, except that your boat's electronic systems are DC operated already, and there is no 120VAC to step down.

I hope this helps, and FWIW...your dock does look cool. I just wouldn't want cheap lighting to cause an accident. Good luck.

[LDA6339]

Like I said when I wokeup this morning and saw all the posts about safety I immediatly drove out and unhooked them from power just in case. All I'm asking now is, what makes them unsafe. The lights are waterproof. The connections plug and then a cap screws down over it to shield them from water- but just to be safe I put caulk glue down on those screws an added redundancy. The lights are mounted in a place where you can't stand on them unless you really wanted to. You'd have to wiggle yourself between the step on the lift and the boat. And even if you did that you may break the 14ft 2x6 that the lights and trailer guides are mounted too before you perforated the rubber surrounding the lights. The lights are hooked up to a ground fault- and not one you buy at walmart- the power box in our slip has one. I believe you guys when you say its unsafe- I just want to know what makes it unsafe so I will know for future.

[moosehead]

You've been told what makes them unsafe in multiple posts in this thread. Not being a jerk, just being clear.

Electrical power + water + swimming + (improper grounding/hobby lobby lighting/extention cords/no gfi) = real exposure to electrical shock drowning.

Any two of the above is exposure that needs to be managed properly, the above combination is freakin crazy.

Boating has many unmanageable risks that we all spend quite a bit of time, effort, and learning to attempt and mitigate. This is one highly dangerous scenario that is completely manageable and within your control.

[FoggyNogginz]

In theory the GFCI would trip. I have seen to many GFCI's fail in the last 16 years to trust a 13$ device to protect my family, friends and pets from electrocution.


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Agreed. I just replaced one last weekend that failed.

[FoggyNogginz]

What about one of those black lights like the enemy(I mean fishermen) use. If those are safe there has to be a way to do it.

Those are sealed, submersion approved IEC IP rated, DC powered systems. However, they are not typically found at Hobby Lobby for 30bucks.

[LDA6339]

To be clear- there is no swimming going on. But I guess what I'm reading is leave them unplugged until I can find better quality lights and wire them in a way without extension cords?

[FoggyNogginz]

Once again - because it was said again - waterproof does not equal submersible in the electrical world.

Just trying to be clear, and not be a PITA.

[LDA6339]

I appreciate everyone reaching out so quickly to keep us safe- Does anyone know where I could find some lights that would be safe? Is tha an online thing of an instore thing? If so which store?