amplifier direction question

[pmkkdx]

Purely from a wattage standpoint, the current nvx is going to deliver the same wattage as the JL M800/8 or MV600/2. So if the nvx is working as it should, you will not gain in volume.

An amp like that Syn-DX2.3HP that offers a great deal more wattage, means we get peak wattage to the speaker, but at a lower gain level setting on the amp. This has the amp running more conservative. This can = better sound quality.

The Fusion also supports a wired remote that has a display. One key advantage to the fusion wired remote v's the clarion, is that the zone control is accessible on the fusion wired remote.

do you know the model number of the wired Fusion remote you mentioned above?

[pmkkdx]

here are my notes we will be sending to both guys we got quotes from. I would love comments or corrections:

After digging thru all the quotes and recommendations, and then going off doing my own research from some trusted boat people, I think I have an idea of what we are looking for now.

I am strongly leaning towards one of the two head units and wired remote control to get digital at the helm as a replacement from the OEM Clarion equipment currently in the boat. Although I have been a long supporter of Kenwood, I don’t feel they are up to par in a marine application for any longevity in that environment.

The Clarion M608 with MW1 or MW3 wired remote … OR … the Fusion MS-RA607 and xxx wired remote. These could be all dependent on availability on which to go with.

As far as the amp goes, I looked back at when we had the previous work done (fall 2019) and the amp that drives the towers was replaced then with an NVX VAD8402 which is a 2 channel 840 watts RMS which should deliver 210W to each speaker … so no advantage of going to the JL M800/8 as even bridged 4 channels with all channels at 2 ohm, it is only hitting the tower speakers RMS of 200W. So, the only reason to replace the existing NVX is I believe would be move to something with more power, like a Wet Sounds Syn-DX2.3HP that would deliver 300W per speaker and run more efficiently with higher output of sound.

We still need to track down & repair the pinched wire on the #3 tower speaker and troubleshoot the white tower (masthead) light on top of the tower.

I welcome feedback on the above.

[MLA]

do you know the model number of the wired Fusion remote you mentioned above?

Apollo series MS-ERX400 has ethernet
Apollo Series MS-SRX400 w/wifi
and the older MS-NRX300

Just need to make sure you get a head unit and remote that are compatible.

[pmkkdx]

Apollo series MS-ERX400 has ethernet
Apollo Series MS-SRX400 w/wifi
and the older MS-NRX300

Just need to make sure you get a head unit and remote that are compatible.

are any or all of those wired to where there is digital display at the remote?

does the notes back to the sound guys for new quotes sound reasonable?

[MLA]

All three of those Fusion wired remotes have a display.

[pmkkdx]

thanks! I sent the above notes to my wife to go out to the guys that gave us quotes ... stay tuned.

[pmkkdx]

finally talked to one guy about the changes I suggested (listed on last page) to which he agreed with going to the Clarion or Fusion head unit would be a better choice but also considerably more money over the Kenwood. In discussing the amp to the towers, tossed out 2 ohm vs 4 ohm and sound quality ... my head started spinning again. More to follow later this morning when I can capture all those notes. So looking for the braintrust here for pro/con on 2 ohm vs 4 ohm on right amp to drive towers (if really needed over the NVX).

[pmkkdx]

yep, my head hurts ... but comparing apples to apples, below are comparisons ... how do ohms come into play??? 2 vs 4 ... is the quality really that much better? I am looking at this being the last time I need to upgrade this system. The guy last night kept stating the JL M800/8 would still be the best with best quality.

Below are specs from individual sites:
NVX VAD8402 – 2 channel 840 watts RMS (what I currently have driving the 4x Rev8s)
Splitting the two channels to the 4 speakers, one channel drives a pair.
2 ohm gives 420 watts per channel (2x) or 210 watts to each speaker (4x)
4 ohm gives 300 watts per channel (2x) or 150 watts to each speaker (4x)

NVX XAD41 – 4 channel 1200 watts (false since 1200 watts is 1 ohm)
2 ohm gives 150 watts per channel (4x) or same to each speaker
4 ohm gives 100 watts per channel (4x) or same to each speaker

JL M800/8 – 8 channel 800 watts, bridging 2 channels for each speaker
At 14.4 vdc:
2 ohm gives 100 watts per channel (x8)
4 ohm gives 75 watts per channel (x8)
4 ohm bridged gives 200 watts per channel (4x) or to each speaker
At 12.5 vdc:
2 ohm gives 60 watts per channel (x8)
4 ohm gives 60 watts per channel (x8)
4 ohm bridged gives 180 watts per channel (4x) or to each speaker

Wet Sounds Syn-DX2.3 HP – 2 channel 1200 watts
Splitting the two channels to 4 speakers, one channel drives a pair
2 ohm gives 600 watts per channel (2x) or 300 watts to each speaker (4x)
4 ohm gives 300 watts per channel (2x) or 150 watts to each speaker (4x)

Wet Sounds Sinister SDX2 – 2 channel 1250 watts
Splitting the two channels to 4 speakers, one channel drives a pair.
2 ohm gives 620 watts per channel (2x) or 310 watts to each speaker (4x)
4 ohm gives 400 watts per channel (2x) or 200 watts to each speaker (4x)

Kicker Kicker KXMA1200.2
Splitting the two channels to 4 speakers, one channel drives a pair.
2 ohm gives 600 watts per channel (2x) or 300 watts to each speaker (4x)
4 ohm gives 300 watts per channel (2x) or 150 watts to each speaker (4x)

are there other viable options? as I think this should cover all the previous recommendations from earlier in this thread.

[MLA]

From a wattage standpoint, the nvx xad41 is out as it will only deliver 100W rms to each of your speakers. Thats a 100+ reduction.

The JL M800/8 is 200W rms with all 8 chnls at a 2 ohm load. So same load and wattage as your current 2 chnl IMO, you will not see a return on investment to replace your working existing 2 chnl to go with the $1050 M800/8. Of course, this is presuming the amp is good, so we are just talking wattage. As noted before, to correctly bridge the 800/8, you need 6 RCA splitters and populate all 8 RCA inputs. A 2 chnl requires no splitters and only a single pair of RCA. 200W rms is just hitting the speakers RMS and you've got the amp running full bore to boot.

The SYN-DX2.3HP is going to net 100W rms MORE to EACH speaker for only $50 more then the M800/8. This give you whats called head room. The speaker is going to reach its potential without running the amp's gain to its max. Ill include the Kicker KXMA1200.2 (if you can find one right now) in this same statement, but at a lower investment.

Comparing built quality between JL and NVX, Powerbass, Soundstream, ect, is certainly a worthwhile topic. Comparing the build quality of JL to Wet Sounds and Kicker, is a wast of time IMO. They all build a quality product.

The Rev-8 are 4 ohm each.

[waterlogged882]

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item-182869-Kicker-48KXMA12002.html

.

[waterlogged882]

From a wattage standpoint, the nvx xad41 is out as it will only deliver 100W rms to each of your speakers. Thats a 100+ reduction.

The JL M800/8 is 200W rms with all 8 chnls at a 2 ohm load. So same load and wattage as your current 2 chnl IMO, you will not see a return on investment to replace your working existing 2 chnl to go with the $1050 M800/8. Of course, this is presuming the amp is good, so we are just talking wattage. As noted before, to correctly bridge the 800/8, you need 6 RCA splitters and populate all 8 RCA inputs. A 2 chnl requires no splitters and only a single pair of RCA. 200W rms is just hitting the speakers RMS and you've got the amp running full bore to boot.

The SYN-DX2.3HP is going to net 100W rms MORE to EACH speaker for only $50 more then the M800/8. This give you whats called head room. The speaker is going to reach its potential without running the amp's gain to its max. Ill include the Kicker KXMA1200.2 (if you can find one right now) in this same statement, but at a lower investment.

Comparing built quality between JL and NVX, Powerbass, Soundstream, ect, is certainly a worthwhile topic. Comparing the build quality of JL to Wet Sounds and Kicker, is a wast of time IMO. They all build a quality product.

The Rev-8 are 4 ohm each.

Is there anything you do not know about stereos?

Always learn from your input.

.

[pmkkdx]

I guess the difference between 2 vs 4 ohm is throwing me ... you state the Rev-8 are 4 ohm each ... so no matter what is connected to the Rev-8, it will be 4 ohm?

is there some kind of switch on the amp that determines 2 vs 4 ohm ... if not a physical switch, how does it determine?

so the current NVX versus the JL M800/8 would be 200 watts to each speaker ... is that 2 or 4 ohms?

[MLA]

I guess the difference between 2 vs 4 ohm is throwing me ... you state the Rev-8 are 4 ohm each ... so no matter what is connected to the Rev-8, it will be 4 ohm?

is there some kind of switch on the amp that determines 2 vs 4 ohm ... if not a physical switch, how does it determine?

so the current NVX versus the JL M800/8 would be 200 watts to each speaker ... is that 2 or 4 ohms?

Yes, the rev-8 is now, and forever will be, 4 ohm. You cant change the impedance of a single speakers, but depending on how you wire two together and connect to a single amp chnl, you can present a different ohm load. Or, when bridging A single 4 ohm across 2 chnls, each of the 2 chnls now "see" a 2 ohm load.

In the case of your current 2 chnl and the proposed 8 chnl bridged into 4 chnls, boat amps would be presented with a 2 ohm load on ALL channels and delivering the same wattage to each each speaker.

No switch on amp, it detects the impedance wired to the output channels.

[pmkkdx]

Yes, the rev-8 is now, and forever will be, 4 ohm. You cant change the impedance of a single speakers, but depending on how you wire two together and connect to a single amp chnl, you can present a different ohm load. Or, when bridging A single 4 ohm across 2 chnls, each of the 2 chnls now "see" a 2 ohm load.

In the case of your current 2 chnl and the proposed 8 chnl bridged into 4 chnls, boat amps would be presented with a 2 ohm load on ALL channels and delivering the same wattage to each each speaker.

No switch on amp, it detects the impedance wired to the output channels.

hmmm ...

so copying from my above specs post ... how is the bridged 8 channel get to 4 ohm

NVX VAD8402 – 2 channel 840 watts RMS (what I currently have driving the 4x Rev8s)
Splitting the two channels to the 4 speakers, one channel drives a pair.
2 ohm gives 420 watts per channel (2x) or 210 watts to each speaker (4x)
4 ohm gives 300 watts per channel (2x) or 150 watts to each speaker (4x)

JL M800/8 – 8 channel 800 watts, bridging 2 channels for each speaker
At 14.4 vdc:
2 ohm gives 100 watts per channel (x8)
4 ohm gives 75 watts per channel (x8)
4 ohm bridged gives 200 watts per channel (4x) or to each speaker

this is actually quite interesting to me although confusing at the same time

[MLA]

hmmm ...

so copying from my above specs post ... how is the bridged 8 channel get to 4 ohm

NVX VAD8402 – 2 channel 840 watts RMS (what I currently have driving the 4x Rev8s)
Splitting the two channels to the 4 speakers, one channel drives a pair.
2 ohm gives 420 watts per channel (2x) or 210 watts to each speaker (4x)
4 ohm gives 300 watts per channel (2x) or 150 watts to each speaker (4x)

JL M800/8 – 8 channel 800 watts, bridging 2 channels for each speaker
At 14.4 vdc:
2 ohm gives 100 watts per channel (x8)
4 ohm gives 75 watts per channel (x8)
4 ohm bridged gives 200 watts per channel (4x) or to each speaker

this is actually quite interesting to me although confusing at the same time

Because you are bridging a 4 ohm load with a rev-8. But because you are wiring the 4 ohm speaker across 2 channels, which is what bridging is, each individual chnl acts as if its got a 2 ohm load wired to it. See the specs;

2 ohm x 8 ( 8 chnl stereo) = 100W each. So if you added the 2 channels together, you get the 200W.
4 ohm x 4 (bridged) = 200W each. When bridging a 4 ohm load, you add the 2 ohm output together to get 200 to a single 4 ohm speaker.