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  • Wave push?

    I thought about posting this in the Wakesurf forum, but doesn’t seem to get much traffic.

    Anyways, I’m trying to figure out what creates wave push? I understand how boat weight changes the height and shape of the wave and what increasing or decreasing speed does, but I can’t figure out what determines if a wave has good or bad push. It doesn’t seem to correlate to how the wave looks so what influences the push?

  • #2
    I've always wondered this, too. Any experts out there?

    Following...
    Former: 2007 X15

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    • #3
      Push is definitely a real thing.

      I don't know exactly what causes it, but I think it is a combination of Shape, Height, Direction and Speed of the water running across the wave face. If you look at the water running across the wave face on a Gen2 boat, you will notice that it is moving a lot faster than the water out on the sides that are not affected by the boat.

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      • #4
        I agree. Wave push is weird. We can create a giant steep wave that you just fall out of over and over. I have had days with hardly any weight and no shaper and stay in the wave no issue. Wind and current play a role for sure. The 2006 X30 likes to be listed without a shaper and moderate weight for the best wave with push.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by STX30MAC View Post
          I agree. Wave push is weird. We can create a giant steep wave that you just fall out of over and over. I have had days with hardly any weight and no shaper and stay in the wave no issue. Wind and current play a role for sure. The 2006 X30 likes to be listed without a shaper and moderate weight for the best wave with push.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          Wind is a big one for me when we are going with the wind smooth sailing as soon as we turn around no push = no fun.
          2017 XT23

          2021 Lone Star Master Bash - June 11-13 - Lake Travis, TX
          Instagram: @lonestarmasterbash

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          • #6
            Originally posted by mastercraftka View Post
            Wind is a big one for me when we are going with the wind smooth sailing as soon as we turn around no push = no fun.
            Interesting. I hadn’t even considered that.

            Just trying to figure it out because we’re messing around tweaking the weight, listing, speed, and gate all the while unable to figure out what is affecting the push. Obviously it would be nice to have a newer boat with Gen 2 so I don’t have to worry about it, but that’s not in the cards right now.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by LostDriver669 View Post
              Interesting. I hadn’t even considered that.

              Just trying to figure it out because we’re messing around tweaking the weight, listing, speed, and gate all the while unable to figure out what is affecting the push. Obviously it would be nice to have a newer boat with Gen 2 so I don’t have to worry about it, but that’s not in the cards right now.
              Well without gen 2 i would say add as much weight as possible don't drive to fast start out about 10.3mph and then work your way up if you can, that will depend on how much weight you have in the boat.

              My 04 Xstar was awesome when I had the wakeshaper, 1100lbs in port and 750lbs in starboard and as many people as possible in the boat.

              Bottom line is add weight even the guys with the brand new boats are adding weight. Also make sure the shaper is in the right spot on the boat makes a big difference.
              2017 XT23

              2021 Lone Star Master Bash - June 11-13 - Lake Travis, TX
              Instagram: @lonestarmasterbash

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mastercraftka View Post
                Wind is a big one for me when we are going with the wind smooth sailing as soon as we turn around no push = no fun.
                Have you added weight to your XT23? Dealer is trying to sell me one and all I care about is the wake.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mastercraftka View Post
                  Well without gen 2 i would say add as much weight as possible don't drive to fast start out about 10.3mph and then work your way up if you can, that will depend on how much weight you have in the boat.

                  My 04 Xstar was awesome when I had the wakeshaper, 1100lbs in port and 750lbs in starboard and as many people as possible in the boat.

                  Bottom line is add weight even the guys with the brand new boats are adding weight. Also make sure the shaper is in the right spot on the boat makes a big difference.
                  Appreciate the help. I’m running plenty of weight, although I’m thinking about running even more. That being said, I’m still curious what actually causes the push. It would be nice to be able to lose weight to make a smaller wave for newer surfers and still have good push.

                  We didn’t get to run this setup to see how it felt, but it looks great, which is also why I’m trying to figure out what causes push so I know what to expect when I change things.

                  This is 750s rear, starboard is around 60%, center floor 750, KGB and IBS as full as my boat allowed w, gate at the C on the second step facing forward and 11.5mph. Slowing it down to 10.5 creates a fun monster, but I’m trying to see what happens with a ton of rear weight and speeding up to get the length instead of changing the F/R distribution.
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                  • #10
                    On my boat the shaper location and the depth of the water affect the wave push the most. When I first got my swell slim I put it on as far back as possible and the push was horrible so I started inching it forward and tried until I found the best distance from the back and that is about 8". We typically run in about 17-20' water depth but when my wife gets closer to shore the push is gone and I fall out of the wave immediately. I have about 1000 lbs of ballast, 1 adult and two kids in the boat and running 10.3 mph when I surf and the wave has good push.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dave911rsr View Post
                      Have you added weight to your XT23? Dealer is trying to sell me one and all I care about is the wake.
                      I have not added any yet, will probably get upgraded rear bags this winter and add some lead up front.
                      2017 XT23

                      2021 Lone Star Master Bash - June 11-13 - Lake Travis, TX
                      Instagram: @lonestarmasterbash

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Texasxp View Post
                        On my boat the shaper location and the depth of the water affect the wave push the most. When I first got my swell slim I put it on as far back as possible and the push was horrible so I started inching it forward and tried until I found the best distance from the back and that is about 8"
                        this is interesting to me, I've always read "as far back as possible", will play with mine a bit to see if I have same behavior as you. I have an 07 X2 btw.

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                        • #13
                          I believe that shape has more to do with the wave's push than size but size does contribute. This is a link for a good video that shows what's physically happening when a surfer is on a wave and helped me learn to form good rideable waves. I hope this helps.

                          https://youtu.be/ppmpsnKsl7w

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                          • #14
                            Put another 400 on the rear seat pushed to side you surf on. It will make a big difference in your wave.

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                            • #15
                              Excellent question. I do not have the answer but can share my experience with my X23 with Gen2. Wake push relies on a lot of variables. One is water depth as stated earlier because water is not compressible. I agree with Texasxp. Speed is a huge factor and for me as a river boater, varies a lot. Weight, of course, plays a huge part. I am a big fan of the lead shot bags. They are safe to use, don't roll around and you can move them as needed. Finally, bags leak so always refill your ballast every rider. You will find this makes a difference.

                              My experience is that factors change often and so it is necessary to change inputs all the time. Vary your speed, your weight and most importantly where people sit every run. We even move people during the run as small changes can have big returns. It is frustrating but once you are comfortable making changes, you will find a good pushy wake.
                              07 X star PWT edition
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