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  • gwozhog
    replied
    Originally posted by FourFourty View Post

    Actually, this generation XStar was designed with the primary focus to be- A wakeboard boat that can accommodate, and excell, at providing a great wakeboard wake for ALL skill levels. While also being capable of a top notch surf wave.

    It was not designed to be a "G-killer" at all.

    They knew the primary focus was surf these days. And that a vast majority of buyers wanted a great pro level wakeboard wake that was also easy for lower speeds, and training beginners....... And everything between.

    Past models weren't so great at meeting that goal (Because it wasnt the goal when they were built).

    That is coming direct from the MC engineer that does the final validation on hull designs from MC.

    This isnt 2013 anymore......... Centurion has been caught in surf performance by several others. At this point Centurion is simply throwing more weight at them, at the cost of 80% of the storage in the boat. Still a great wave, but no longer a standout in a sea full of other great surf boats.
    Just came across this video and reminded me of this thread from earlier this year. When you listen to the video at 1;04 does this not mean its being marketed as A G-killer along with its better than every other manufacturers boat out their too. The man working for mastercraft says best on the planet. I have a buddy that has owned both the g and a new Star and he also agrees too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7IWedprkE4

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  • kvw4x4
    replied
    Originally posted by jewbacca View Post
    Honest question from someone who primarily wakeboards: Does big vs biggest really make a difference for most people here? Most of us are limited by our skillset, not the wave. I see the same thing in wakeboarding. Until you get to the point of throwing pro-level tricks, what does it matter? I'm throwing the same tricks behind my 205V stock wake as I would behind a perfectly tuned latest-gen X-star.
    I think for the average maybe 1 invert it’s not a big deal. But if your looking to progress and learn. It’s makes a huge difference hitting a wake the sends you effortlessly vs a wake where 50 % of your energy is used up trying to get some air. We have progressed through boats. 22 ‘ blue water. 2007 x15 to an Xstar. And it defiantly makes landing tricks easier the bigger the wake is. I don’t know where I would be categorized tho, multiple 180s 360s 5-6 inverts.

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  • gwozhog
    replied
    Originally posted by jewbacca View Post
    Yeah I mean, the measuring tape tests are pretty cool. I wouldn't have known the pockets were that long. But at the price points of the boats we're discussing, the difference in a couple of feet of pocket length would be towards the bottom of my consideration. Even if I were primarily surfing.
    This would make a great on going new thread to start.

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  • jewbacca
    replied
    Yeah I mean, the measuring tape tests are pretty cool. I wouldn't have known the pockets were that long. But at the price points of the boats we're discussing, the difference in a couple of feet of pocket length would be towards the bottom of my consideration. Even if I were primarily surfing.

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  • maniacmikes
    replied
    Originally posted by jewbacca View Post
    Honest question from someone who primarily wakeboards: Does big vs biggest really make a difference for most people here? Most of us are limited by our skillset, not the wave. I see the same thing in wakeboarding. Until you get to the point of throwing pro-level tricks, what does it matter? I'm throwing the same tricks behind my 205V stock wake as I would behind a perfectly tuned latest-gen X-star.

    I 100% agree that at a certain point you need to stop b$&!*ing about the wave and work at being a better surfer.

    With that said, when you throw a trick wakesurfing you lose speed...and a more powerful wave (not necessarily just bigger) will help you from losing the wave and recover. This is different than wakeboarding, it can definitely help you progress, but also can be a crutch, also like wakeboarding big wakes.

    If you need an M235, or a Centurion, or an Xstar to stay in the wave after trying a 360...you’re doing something wrong...just like if you can only jump the wake on a wakeboard behind a sacked out G.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  • MC25
    replied
    Originally posted by jewbacca View Post
    Honest question from someone who primarily wakeboards: Does big vs biggest really make a difference for most people here? Most of us are limited by our skillset, not the wave. I see the same thing in wakeboarding. Until you get to the point of throwing pro-level tricks, what does it matter? I'm throwing the same tricks behind my 205V stock wake as I would behind a perfectly tuned latest-gen X-star.
    No. It legitimately doesn’t. I can do my entire bag of tricks behind a direct drive Malibu.

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  • FourFourty
    replied
    Originally posted by maniacmikes View Post
    https://youtu.be/mATJ2bgdxL4

    Not the best thought out or choreographed exercise...but I do feel I need to carry the torch a little since 440 doesn’t have a boat.

    Not meant to be apples to apples, or scientific comparison to say that one is definitively better than the other....I was just out with some friends and I brought a tape measure. I definitely could have played around with the settings and done some stuff different, but I’m not boardco- I don’t get paid to make videos and sell boats, I want to enjoy my time on the lake.

    My point is just that the X boats are in the same realm as the other “best in the world” surf waves...the rest is about setup and personal preference.

    Of note, I’m 6’2” ; 210 pounds (thanks covid). I’m way bigger than the boardco guy. He is also much more talented than me...and this was my second run of the season- still rusty- and wearing a full wetsuit, riding my normal 4’7” board (pretty small for a guy my size).

    Not really worth watching the video, so if you don’t want to click the link- I can just tell you I was about 30’ back at 12.5mph and could recover from the curl of the wave fairly easily...the rollers coming off the lake were making it challenging.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    We need a like/love button on this forum. Very nice

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  • jewbacca
    replied
    Originally posted by LostDriver669 View Post
    I will say from a surfing standpoint, yes it does help. Not to land new tricks, but to allow more leeway to get back into the wave and keep going vs losing the wave.
    I can see that, but we're talking about pockets going >35' behind the boat. I get wanting a tall wave. I get wanting a long pocket. I don't get the pissing contest over who can pull the tape measure the furthest.

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  • WolverineFW
    replied
    https://youtu.be/V_yuS8txoUU

    Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

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  • j.mo
    replied
    These threads just remind me of the what oil is best threads.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  • LostDriver669
    replied
    Originally posted by jewbacca View Post
    Honest question from someone who primarily wakeboards: Does big vs biggest really make a difference for most people here? Most of us are limited by our skillset, not the wave. I see the same thing in wakeboarding. Until you get to the point of throwing pro-level tricks, what does it matter? I'm throwing the same tricks behind my 205V stock wake as I would behind a perfectly tuned latest-gen X-star.
    I will say from a surfing standpoint, yes it does help. Not to land new tricks, but to allow more leeway to get back into the wave and keep going vs losing the wave.

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  • gwozhog
    replied
    Originally posted by maniacmikes View Post
    https://youtu.be/mATJ2bgdxL4

    Not the best thought out or choreographed exercise...but I do feel I need to carry the torch a little since 440 doesn’t have a boat.

    Not meant to be apples to apples, or scientific comparison to say that one is definitively better than the other....I was just out with some friends and I brought a tape measure. I definitely could have played around with the settings and done some stuff different, but I’m not boardco- I don’t get paid to make videos and sell boats, I want to enjoy my time on the lake.

    My point is just that the X boats are in the same realm as the other “best in the world” surf waves...the rest is about setup and personal preference.

    Of note, I’m 6’2” ; 210 pounds (thanks covid). I’m way bigger than the boardco guy. He is also much more talented than me...and this was my second run of the season- still rusty- and wearing a full wetsuit, riding my normal 4’7” board (pretty small for a guy my size).

    Not really worth watching the video, so if you don’t want to click the link- I can just tell you I was about 30’ back at 12.5mph and could recover from the curl of the wave fairly easily...the rollers coming off the lake were making it challenging.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    That is awesome!

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  • jewbacca
    replied
    Honest question from someone who primarily wakeboards: Does big vs biggest really make a difference for most people here? Most of us are limited by our skillset, not the wave. I see the same thing in wakeboarding. Until you get to the point of throwing pro-level tricks, what does it matter? I'm throwing the same tricks behind my 205V stock wake as I would behind a perfectly tuned latest-gen X-star.

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  • maniacmikes
    replied
    Originally posted by FourFourty View Post
    Challenge accepted. I can easily run that length or further in a new XStar, so long as I bump it up to 12.5-13mph...... Which seems to be about the speed they are running. Engine is definitely screaming more than my star would be.

    Sadly, I won't have my boat until early august

    Hate to be that guy....but it is what it is. I definitely want to try that out, and from what I have seen from my XStars at higher surf speeds, 36' will be easy.

    https://youtu.be/mATJ2bgdxL4

    Not the best thought out or choreographed exercise...but I do feel I need to carry the torch a little since 440 doesn’t have a boat.

    Not meant to be apples to apples, or scientific comparison to say that one is definitively better than the other....I was just out with some friends and I brought a tape measure. I definitely could have played around with the settings and done some stuff different, but I’m not boardco- I don’t get paid to make videos and sell boats, I want to enjoy my time on the lake.

    My point is just that the X boats are in the same realm as the other “best in the world” surf waves...the rest is about setup and personal preference.

    Of note, I’m 6’2” ; 210 pounds (thanks covid). I’m way bigger than the boardco guy. He is also much more talented than me...and this was my second run of the season- still rusty- and wearing a full wetsuit, riding my normal 4’7” board (pretty small for a guy my size).

    Not really worth watching the video, so if you don’t want to click the link- I can just tell you I was about 30’ back at 12.5mph and could recover from the curl of the wave fairly easily...the rollers coming off the lake were making it challenging.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  • Ekennedy21
    replied
    Originally posted by djyas View Post
    Is this even a real person or some bot and/or social media agency? Let’s get some proof of life here. Can you post some pics of you and your demos of the MC and you with this paragon you supposedly purchased?

    Anyone seriously thinking a slight perceived edge is worth a $140k’ish retail markup is nuts IMO. Can you please expand on that reasoning?

    That is unless Nautique is quietly dumping these for the same price as x24’s now?

    Related, does anyone think the paragons aren’t going to depreciate faster than any other wake boat?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sure, No problem. Sorry, I haven't been on here in a bit. First pic is the x24 we demoed with Nester at South Florida Marine, Second Is The Paragon we demoed, and third is our boat. Sorry, It was the only picture I have with me in it.

    Slight edge is Storage, placement of cooler, better lounge chairs on rear, walk through to rear, less bow rise on acceleration (no need to use bolster), More shade from bimini and not having to wrap it up, Nautique steering assist is far superior to dockstar in functionality, surf switch so rider and switch wave side, and a better sound system.

    No, Nautique isn't dumping Paragons. They are roughly $100,000 more then an average spec'd x-24, but you can put a dent into that by going for even option on the MC.

    Do I think the Paragon is going to depreciate faster the than the x-24 or g23? Absolutely! Look, After a year or two, gently used Paragons are going to be going up against new x-24's and g23's. So the question is, for the same money you can order a custom boat or get a used boat that will do "about" the same thing. I really struggled with this decision. That being said, I bought the Paragon simply because I wanted it.
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