Surf/Wake Foil recommendation

[jackpine]

Looking to pick up a surf/wake foil & board setup for the fam to use this summer & hoped you guys can point me in the right direction.

I’ve been all over the board in terms of price, options, etc. I’ve looked at the newer Phase 5 stuff / GoFoils but they seem brand specific, Slingshot (no idea about their foils but see a lot of them used) & ironically ran into the Armstrong foils guy who invented the AirChair at the boat show. He’s 74 & still rides! Foils were amazing carbon fiber & only 6 lbs or something, but thinking $4k might be overkill for a starter setup.

Still we would like something that would allow us room to advance. I’ve foiled once & realize there’s going to be a learning curve. The wipeouts were hilarious but I’m thinking a helmet might be a good idea for newbies.

It would be for me & the fam who are all mostly athletic & medium in terms of height & build except for my son who’s pushing 6’ 2” but is very athletic, slim build.

We would primarily use behind the boat and maybe pump foiling but the nephew might like to take it out kite foiling so foot holds might be nice or if we get good enough for tricks.

Searched existing threads but seems like there are a lot of new foil & board options out there.

• Skim or surf style board?
• Aluminum vs carbon fiber?
• Ease of assembly vs universal?

[ValveCoverGasket]

watching this also, looking to grab a setup for this summer as well
from what ive seen slingshot and liquidforce on the wakemakers site seem to have some of the cheaper combo setups - what i cant quite tell is whether the mounting setup is somewhat standardized so you might be able to have your kite foiling mast + wing, and your boat foiling mast + wing and mount them to your same slingshot/liquid/hyperlite/whatever board once youre invested in a system


anyway, curious to see what folks have to say also

where are you finding them used?

[sdfoiler]

I'll preface this by saying foiling is addictive. Be careful. For surf foiling, we started with a Slingshot setup and WF2 board. It was a GREAT learner setup and we still use the WF2 board to teach beginners. We have upgraded to Armstrong masts and wings since then, and now that's all we use. But they aren't as forgiving for beginners. And I hate to say it, but if your nephew gets into Kite Foiling, he's going to want his own personal setup. It's a great idea to think you would swap wings on boards, etc - but normally you end up with a beginner setup, and then a more advanced setup once you have mastered the beginner. At least that's what I see.

I've been in the foiling business for many, many years. (Not quite as long as Mike Murphy who you met at the boat show though) If you have any questions, let me know.

[Plymouth Family Guy]

I have been able to ride many types of foils over the past 4-5 years. We mainly use Slingshot. We started with their longest surf style board with a medium mast. We wore helmets as we were learning how to foil. Please note - old slalom skiers used to leaning back when holding a robe behind a boat need a long learning curve to remember to stay forward/flat when learning how to foil.

We have moved on to shorter boards and longer masts. My favorite set up right now is a 100cm Slingshot board on the longest mast. White board in the picture Very nimble.

If you buy a set up for many different users, I would suggest a mast no longer than 61cm/24 inches as beginners have trouble kicking the board on its side to start if the mast is really tall and they can't reach the foils to get the board on its side when starting out.

I have also been on Axis and Armstrong foils. They are both awesome, but I wouldn't recommend them for beginners.

[sdfoiler]

Yep - agree with Plymouth... We have basically the same surf foil as in his pictures (orange and white board). It's the on top of the tower - the left surf foil. The right one (on top of the tower) is the Armstrong with a shorter board - WAY more nimble... which equates to way more difficult to balance for beginners.

[rbuss4]

Have used the same Slingshot board setup shown in pics above for the last couple years. Great setup to learn on; as the kit came with two masts. We have upgraded the front wing for different lift, ride, and fun. Bought into a Phase 5 setup this winter that was too good a deal to pass up; so excited for that this summer. My guidance would be to buy the Slingshot set that comes with two mast lengths and learn with that. I think board options are slightly smaller now compared to the larger orange board that is shown on the pics as that seems the direction wake foiling is moving.

[wallos]

Started with the same slingshot multi mast kit. Dif size mast helped not knowing what we were doing. Moved onto Armstrong after a couple weeks. Big improvement. Having it float (carbon) is a really big help for starting with board on side. Mast was way more stable (although stiffer ones are now available). Armstrong has wide range of foils for dif performance. I currently like the CFv2 1200 for it's loose turning and pitch stability. Theres a 1600 that would be really stable for learning and a 900 for smaller riders and kids. Designed for wakefoiling and beginners but has great performance with ease of use. There is a lot of used Armstrong stuff available as they just came out with new mast and foils that people are switching to. Other great brands are Axis and Gofoil. IMO board really doesn't mater much. Once you can get up on foil the smaller the better. You can go right from water to foil with an experienced driver once you get better. Nice to see some wakefoil content.

[wallos]

Armstrong CFv2 1200 foil on 72cm mast.

[chrislandy]

I'm going to throw GONG into the mix, they're built in France but ship worldwide. 1/3rd of the price of the wakesurf/wakeboard brands as they are a surfing company that got into foils.

I've got an Allvatur V2 Curve which is an ali mast and carbon wings & body

https://www.gong-galaxy.com/categorie-produit/foil-fr/nos-gammes-foils-fr/curve-fr/

As a very famous French 3 eventer (but mainly trick skier) and wakeboarder showed me, just get an old wakeboard, put some old bindings on it and bolt it to the mast. Then when better, replace the bindings with foam pads.

The bindings make sure the thing sticks to your feet when learning to minimise you getting impaled by the wing.

[wallos]

I just listed my Armstrong foil in classified if anyone is interested. I decided to upgrade to new taller mast and just released MA foils.

[jackpine]

Yeah, I saw that you listed your foil. Is it the A+ mast and fuselage design?

[wallos]

No it's the V1 mast and fuse. For those that don't know the A+ has an extra through bolt between mast and fuse. There's a conversion kit but I never thought it was needed. The fuse has a neg tail angle pitch for using positive shims to fine tune lift and stability of tail. I think no shim on V1 is good (comes with shims if you want to mess around with them). The bolt was added as a fix for using larger high aspect wings which are very wide and have lots of leverage on the mast. For years opinions on the flex of V1 and A+ have varied from that the flex is lively and feels great to that it is a noodle. Kinda depends on which cup of koolaid you're drinking. I love the flex carving turns behind the boat with a smooth consistent wave. It feels kinda like a camber in a snowboard or ski. Stiff mast feel dead and unresponsive. I would like to keep this setup but after pricing out the new performance mast and med aspect foils at $3800!! my wife would appreciate me at least trying to sell some stuff before getting new stuff.

Edit: I just researched current reviews of the A+ mast and it is reported to currently be heavier and stronger than the original. Above description .revised

[HurricaneMC]

I'm going to throw GONG into the mix, they're built in France but ship worldwide. 1/3rd of the price of the wakesurf/wakeboard brands as they are a surfing company that got into foils.

I've got an Allvatur V2 Curve which is an ali mast and carbon wings & body

https://www.gong-galaxy.com/categorie-produit/foil-fr/nos-gammes-foils-fr/curve-fr/

As a very famous French 3 eventer (but mainly trick skier) and wakeboarder showed me, just get an old wakeboard, put some old bindings on it and bolt it to the mast. Then when better, replace the bindings with foam pads.

The bindings make sure the thing sticks to your feet when learning to minimise you getting impaled by the wing.

Can you elaborate on your Gong foil setup? I've been considering picking one up, but their website doesn't have much info at all pertaining specifically to wake foiling. I picked up a Phase 5 foil setup with their 760(?) front wing last year and now I'm hooked! I have no trouble at all cruising around rope-free on the surf wave, but I just cannot seem to hold onto the second wake. I'm thinking a larger front wing will be the ticket to better pumping and holding onto the 2nd or 3rd wakes, but Phase 5 only makes one option for a larger wing and there is essentially no info or reviews on it, and also it's over $800 for just the wing. Gong seems to have more options and you can get an entire foil setup (minus board) for half the price of just the wing from Phase 5. Anyhow, from what I can deduce I'm thinking the Allvator V2 size XL might be the right thing for me (I'm 180 lbs, athletic build). Sorry for the ramble, but if you can possibly provide any guidance or comments in general that would be great! Thanks!

[chrislandy]

Mine is the allvator v2 mast, (aluminium) 65cm (~25 / 26" ) with a Curve XL front wing and whatever they supplied for the rear to balance it (Curve 46?). I bought it with their Matata 4'5" surf foil board but I found that too buoyant so have bolted it to an old liquid force twintip (and no it doesn't sink, I checked many times before I took it into deep water!) and can get knocked around in the boat without worrying about damaging the board.

I think there is a tendency to undersize foils in the wakefoil community/companies, the Curve XL is 92cm wide and has great lift, I'm ~190lb and can fly at 6mph, free pump around the lake on it (not very well but that's my technique rather than the kit!) It can easily wakefoil without a rope at about 9mph up to about 12. First and second wakes of my '14 prostar (without ballast) but haven't tried further back. I've seen it done 8+ waves back on an old ski boat malibu with the same kit so very possible, but he also had a Fluid XXL-T wing which he could dock start and pump around the lake for a couple of minutes.

Mine came with a bag for the foil & mast, might be as it was a kit, but best to check. The carbon fibre layup is good quality on the foil, stabiliser and fuselage.

Using the wakeboard I could bolt on some old bindings to make it safer to learn on and for the kids, I could probably do with going one size larger for pumping and wakethiefing but it would be too big for others to use. We've had 60lb when wet 11yr old, 14yr old and others so works for all the family on one board.

[HurricaneMC]

chrislandy thanks for the detailed response! Certainly gives me a lot of confidence that the XL Gong will work for me, so I'll be pulling the trigger on that soon. Cheers!