2012 ballast fill time issues

[bcd]

Does anyone know how the 2012 ballast system works and how to change fill times? I don't have plug and play, and I don't have the BIG display. I plumbed in extra sacs in my factory overflow and can't get them to fill all the way. This has been a 5 month ordeal so far, and I still have no resolution.

Here's what I've been told so far, not sure what is true:

The Jabsco timers are gone.

The ballast system senses current draw (load) uses that to determine determines when the tanks are empty and when to turn the pumps off.

I called Bay Area Watersports and they said they always do it with plug and play. They didn't think you could change fill times.

I called Texas Ski Ranch, and they said I needed updated software (wasn't sure if it was for the display or which controller it was). They said I needed version 2. something, and that since I took delivery of my boat last October, my software was out of date. Once I had new software, there would be a menu pick to adjust the fill time.

I took my boat down to my dealer last week to get the needed updates. He just called and said that the updates were done, including the software update. He also said that he called Mastercraft, and they said you had to have the plug and play option to be able to change the fill time.

Has anyone else run into this issue? Has anyone found a solution? I've got an idea on overriding the factory set up after it times out. I could use a double pole, double throw switch. When in the off position, the system will fill and empty at factory set up. After I fill my tanks, and the factory set up turns off, I can flip the switch which will kick the pumps on. Once I have water overflowing out the side of the hull, my bags will be full, and I can flip the switch off. When I want to empty, I can let the factory system empty everything since it goes off of load, not time. I couldn't verify this last fall because it wasn't emptying correctly, even when I only had the factory tanks full. It was supposed to be corrected while at the dealer.

Here's a schematic of my idea. Any thoughts?

[vision]

When the pumps time out on filling, and you turn the pump switch to off, then turn it back on, do the pumps run for 10 seconds then stop? What do the pumps do when you cycle the power after they time out on a fill?

If you are going to re-wire the pumps, then I suggest bypassing the entire MC system and simply wire the pumps directly to a DPDT switch. Just make sure you use a switch rated for 20 - 25 amps.

[bcd]

When they time out and I cycle the pump switch, it only runs for 10 seconds. That's a good idea to try cycling the key. I'll give it a tyr. When you cycle the key, it resets the setting and defaults to auto-level mode and starts to empty the ballast.

If I re-wire the pumps, I don't want to do a complete bypass. The ballast empties out the bottom of the boat, so I won't know when they are empty and when to shut the pumps off. I also don't want to have to plumb in all of the check valves to go back to the old system of emptying out the side hull ports.

[Millertime]

Just cirious, what is the auto level mode?

[tr6coug]

I can't believe what a mess MC has made of filling ballast tanks. First it was the Jabsco timers, then the second version of the Jabsco timers, then plug and play. All it really needs to be is a switch that fills, empties, and times out with a time that is easily set. So, you flip the switch it will run until it times out or until you turn it off.

I was thinking of designing this very thing for my '07 and scrapping the Jabsco timers. Anyone else interested in that?

[bcd]

Auto level mode empties all of the ballast, sensing if the boat is listing to one side (ie everyone is sitting on one side of the boat), and then fills the opposite side ballast to level the boat. I've never actually tried using the feature.

[snork]

I can't believe what a mess MC has made of filling ballast tanks. First it was the Jabsco timers, then the second version of the Jabsco timers, then plug and play. All it really needs to be is a switch that fills, empties, and times out with a time that is easily set. So, you flip the switch it will run until it times out or until you turn it off.

I was thinking of designing this very thing for my '07 and scrapping the Jabsco timers. Anyone else interested in that?

I'm interested

[vision]

I can't believe what a mess MC has made of filling ballast tanks. First it was the Jabsco timers, then the second version of the Jabsco timers, then plug and play. All it really needs to be is a switch that fills, empties, and times out with a time that is easily set. So, you flip the switch it will run until it times out or until you turn it off.

I was thinking of designing this very thing for my '07 and scrapping the Jabsco timers. Anyone else interested in that?

Completely agree. Simple digital timer next to each directly wired empty/off/full switch. Hell, an analog egg timer switch would work well enough.

Was their a government official involved in the pump control design after 2006? certainly they made something simple exceptionally complicated.

[bcd]

I took the boat out today and tried filling the ballast and cut power to see if the ballast setting would reset. It didn't work. I even tried turning the battery switch to off. It was too rough to wakeboard, so I only surfed. I filled the front and port side ballast, and then sat there cycling the fill switches every 10 seconds to fill them completely. When I finished surfing, I also filled my starboard side, but only to the factory fill time. I then hit the empty switch for all 3. When they finished, I pulled the boat out and hit the empty switches one at a time. The starboard side was empty, but the front and port side took about 5 minutes of cycling the switch to get them empty.

Looks like the empty cycle is run off a timer and doesn't since load like I was told, so my schematic above won't work. I like the idea of making an easy digital timer system and bypassing the POS factory set up completely.

[vision]

I took the boat out today and tried filling the ballast and cut power to see if the ballast setting would reset. It didn't work. I even tried turning the battery switch to off. It was too rough to wakeboard, so I only surfed. I filled the front and port side ballast, and then sat there cycling the fill switches every 10 seconds to fill them completely. When I finished surfing, I also filled my starboard side, but only to the factory fill time. I then hit the empty switch for all 3. When they finished, I pulled the boat out and hit the empty switches one at a time. The starboard side was empty, but the front and port side took about 5 minutes of cycling the switch to get them empty.

Looks like the empty cycle is run off a timer and doesn't since load like I was told, so my schematic above won't work. I like the idea of making an easy digital timer system and bypassing the POS factory set up completely.

Sounds like the 2012 set up is exactly the same as the post 2006 set up with time limited relays still present. At least on your set up. I assume plug-n-play they simply remove the timers altogether?

[sand2snow22]

We just installed basically the plug and play system on a 2008 X-15. There is a way to cycle the ballast pump switches to adjust the fill times. Ask MC or your dealer if you can still do this in 2012? If so, I can get you instructions.

[MattsCraft]

Here is the process from '09, no idea if the timers are the same for '12.

[BHT]

MattsCraft do you happen to know if the process is the same for 07 and 09?

[MattsCraft]

MattsCraft do you happen to know if the process is the same for 07 and 09?

Not sure, but I think the timers wnet from 6 minute to 20 minute in '08, which would mean you most likely have 6 minute and would need to change to 20 minute module or remove.

See this post.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=43365&highlight=ballast+Timers

[bcd]

I talked to Mastercraft technical support and got the final answer - you need to have plug-n-play to get the factory system to fill extra bags. Since I didn't get the option, it would be expensive and very hard to install aftermarket.

My final solution was to say screw all of the timers and hard wire the motors with the factory fill switches and added relays. I unhooked all the factory connections and wired in 9 new relays and 45 new wires. I can post some pictures if anyone else wants to take this on. I finished it up Friday night, and tried it out Saturday.

Everything worked great until I tried getting cruise control to work. When I set it to wakeboard mode, it wouldn't ever kick in because of the open connection to the motors. I worked around that by going into set up mode through the display and setting the extra ballast setting to yes, which disabled the factory ballast setting. The wakeboard mode still flashes instead of coming on solid, but the cruise does kick in.

I originally wanted to add 3 DPDT through switches to tie my system in parallel to the factory, so I could use the factory to fill the stock tanks, and then flip the 3 DPDT switches to use the hard wired solution, but I couldn't find 3 DPDT Otto switches to match the factory. I called several distributors, and they were going to have to special order them. That also would have required me to also add 3 additional fill/empty switches and all the extra wiring, so I scrapped the idea.