Ballast Pump Just Shuts Back Off.

[86Skier]

Just curious where to start. Starboard rear ballast pump started acting up last night. Would turn on either manually or when initiating a profile, but would turn right off within a second or two even if nowhere near full or empty.

Up arrow would display when it was on, to show filling, then disappear. Exact same emptying. Ended up coming home with that tank 1/3 full.

I have several spare impellers, but I didn't think the computer was smart enough to know the current one is shot to shutdown.... so am instead thinking maybe the timer... or something else? Any thoughts?

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[bcd]

Could be a slight short circuit in the wiring. The controller can measure current output, if it's over its limit, it would shut off. Worn impeller shouldn't cause that. Have you tried looking in the diagnostic screen? I'm not sure if it will show anything, but it might.

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[86Skier]

Have you tried looking in the diagnostic screen? I'm not sure if it will show anything, but it might.

I actually haven't. Never even thought to. I'll take a peak.

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[86Skier]

No fault codes or other indications on the diagnostics screen.


Also, I believe the dealer gave me the wrong impellers. Picked them up from Action on my way out of town for vacation a few weeks ago and never paid attention to what they through in the bag because they "know my boat"... but my pumps are Jabsco 18670's and the (orange) impellers say Ultra Ballast F4, Johnson, PN 3001051....?

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[WolverineFW]

Orange impellers are the cheap wet only impellers. If you run them when dry they are toast. The green ones are wet/dry.

I and a similar issue at the beginning of the season where I have the arrows on the screen showing the ballast filling but the pumps were off. Dealer reloaded the software and I haven't had that issue since. No issues last year either.

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[86Skier]

Even if not as good as the green ones, will the orange "Ultra Ballast F4, Johnson, PN 3001051" still work with my Jabsco 18670's or do I need to run to the dealer and swap them out? I thought Jabsco and Johnson were completely separate entities, so figured since the packaging specifically said "Johnson", that they were the wrong ones...?

Also, I see two pumps mounted on the rear hull of the boat on either side of the engine in the engine compartment... I assume those are for the rear bags(?)... but I am not sure where they hid the 3rd pump for the front tank... any pointers? Figured I might as well swap out all of the impellers while in the process.

[bcd]

It's under your center rear seat on the starboard side, basically right next to the transmission. I went cheap and ordered the globe ones off ebay. Only been running them for about a month, but so far, so good.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253548740331

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[bcd]

Here is the factory exact replacement:

https://www.wakemakers.com/jabsco-ballast-puppy-green-neoprene-impeller.html

Notice their note at the bottom:

The Jabsco Green Ballast Impeller is also the replacement upgrade impeller for the*Johnson Ultra Ballast Reversible Pump. Jabsco Ballast Puppy Impellers have been confirmed compatible with*Johnson Ultra Ballast Pumps.

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[86Skier]

Thanks!

I'm checking with my dealer to see if they have any green ones in stock so I can swap them all out tonight, and just save the orange one's as spares...

Otherwise, I'll stick an orange one in just that pump to try and get back up and running, but then probably still order some green one's to swap them all out to when they arrive.

[86Skier]

Just following up because I like when threads post solutions for future searches.

My issue was just the impeller. I was hoping it was, but was surprised that the “computer” was smart enough to shut the pump off when the impeller was bad. I assumed it would just continue to run based on a timed setting, even if it wasn’t pumping water, but that wasn’t the case, instead it would just start to run and look good on the screen, but then it would stop and the “fill arrow” would disappear form the screen to show that it was no longer filling the tanks.

New impeller and all is good though.

[86Skier]

And it's back..... exact same issue popped up today after about 5-6 outings over the last 2-ish weeks without any issues.

Same ballast pump would turn on and run for a second, then shut off. ***. Played today with rear starboard tanks empty, and adjusted as best I could by moving lead.

Pump bad? Can't imagine its the impeller, but going to throw another at it in the morning anyway because I have one.

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[jpwhit]

It's not the impeller. Impeller can't cause this type of problem.

From your very original post, where you say the arrow disappears from the screen, that tells me the computer is turning off the pump. Sounds like your Murphy display/computer is failing. You can test this theory by starting your ballast filling and immediately switching the screen to another page where they ballast can't be controlled. If the ballast keeps filling when you do that, then that proves it's the screen / computer.

You can also try using the manual fill switch when the computer is on a screen that can't control the ballast. Each time you flip the toggle switch to fill, it'll run for at least 30 seconds. If that works, it'll also point to the computer as being the issue.

If it's not the computer, then is likely a wiring issue.

[bcd]

Can you make a jumper harness? If not, you can buy one on Amazon. I'd get a jumper harness and plug it into the harness of the bad pump and plug it into another pump. If that pump suddenly starts not working, it's the harness or controller. If it works fine, then plug the harness from that pump into the extension and plug it into the pump that's not working. If that pump still isn't working, then it's probably the pump/ motor. You can also hot wire the pump directly to the battery but I'd make sure to include a fuse in the circuit if you did that. Depending on how far you want to go, you can take the pump out, separate the pump from the motor, then power the motor to see if it spins. You can also disassemble the motor. There are pictures on here that shows how to do it. There's a few tricks to get it reassembled, but it's not that bad.

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[86Skier]

It isn't that the pump doesn't run... because it does... it just shuts off right away. After changing the impeller a week or so ago (?) When it was doing the same, and having the issue then go away, I figured thats all it was... thought maybe the system detects overheats or amperage loads (etc) and kills the pump. But it worked fine with the new impeller for awhile, and then just decided not to work again. The pump sorta "squeals" for a few seconds then shuts off... hit it again, squeal for a second or two, then shuts off.

I planned to investigate today, but my better half had plans I supposedly "knew about" but didn't know about. Hopefully open it up tomorrow just to peak at the pump/impeller and go from there.

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[jpwhit]

All of that was clear prior to your last post. The only thing the system monitors about the pump is the amount of current being drawn. That is done by the PDM and the computer "talks" to the PDM via the CANBUS.

If the high current limit were tripped, you would think that would show up on the diagnostics screen, but you checked that and didn't see anything on the diagnostics screen. The computer shows the arrow symbols when it thinks the pump is running. So, when the arrow disappears, either the computer turned it off, or possibly the PDM current limit was tripped and the PDM sent that error to the computer and the computer removed the arrow. Maybe a temporary high current limit error doesn't show on the diagnostic screen.

In any case, I doubt the impeller has anything to do with the issue. It may be an intermittent issue and it's just coincidence that it started working after you changed the impeller. It could be an intermittent wiring issue, or it could be water has gotten past the seals of the pump and corroded the motor bearings. Bad bearing could cause the pump to pull too much power and to trip the PDM current limit. Again, that last theory would only make sense if the PDM current limit errors aren't shown on the diag screen.

If you have have a current meter that goes up to say 20A, you could measure the current draw of that pump. I think the PDM upper current limit trips at 15A.