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  • I wouldn't use an isolator. I'd suggest a VSR.

    https://www.bluesea.com/products/761...12_24V_DC_120A
    Last edited by CantRepeat; 11-09-2014, 08:13 AM.
    -Tim

    Making boomers great again!! Boomin'

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    • Originally posted by JimN View Post
      Do you define 'house battery', as "the one used for the boat's electronics and engine"? You want a cranking battery for the engine, if the engine's electronics will be sharing the battery used for cranking and if you want to use deep cycle for the audio, that's fine, but you WILL need a heavy duty alternator if you expect your batteries to recharge and be able to supply all of the other electronics with the proper voltage and current. If you were to use a separate battery for cranking and ONLY for cranking, a deep cycle would work, but if you expect to run the battery voltage down below 10VDC, you're not using them according to their design. 'Deep cycle' doesn't mean "deplete them so they're stone dead".
      Yes that is my definition of a hous/aux batt. The idea is not to deplete them, I was just throwing out a what if scenario

      Originally posted by JimN View Post
      How loudly do you play the stereo, do you crank it while the engine is off, at idle, or at/near WOT and what other accessories would be used at a given time? Those will determine the demands on the batteries and charging system. The charging system must be designed for "worst case" scenarios if it's expected to survive and operate correctly.
      Correct, I'm aware that I will need a new alternator

      Originally posted by JimN View Post
      Why would you "replace the alternator every so often as preventative maintenance insurance", rather than just design the system correctly in the first place?

      If you use a heavy duty alternator, you'll need to use a heavier charging wire, too.

      List the stereo equipment by brand and model, too.
      My understanding of charging systems is limited. Now that I know that I can purchase a high output alternator designed for a system like this, I will go that route.
      Kevin

      Comment


      • Originally posted by paintpollz View Post
        Yes that is my definition of a hous/aux batt. The idea is not to deplete them, I was just throwing out a what if scenario



        Correct, I'm aware that I will need a new alternator



        My understanding of charging systems is limited. Now that I know that I can purchase a high output alternator designed for a system like this, I will go that route.
        http://www.onallcylinders.com/2012/1...an-alternator/
        -Tim

        Making boomers great again!! Boomin'

        Comment


        • Yup, read that article, thanks Tim. Now in the hunt for the product # for an HO alt to fit this motor. I'll likely install the alt and then have an automotive shop around me upgrade the big 3.
          Kevin

          Comment


          • Originally posted by paintpollz View Post
            Yes that is my definition of a hous/aux batt. The idea is not to deplete them, I was just throwing out a what if scenario



            Correct, I'm aware that I will need a new alternator

            My understanding of charging systems is limited. Now that I know that I can purchase a high output alternator designed for a system like this, I will go that route.
            In the '90s and into the early 2000s, people who competed in IASCA and other car stereo "sound off" competitions were running a lot more power than your boat, often in small imported cars. The OEM alternators were often good for 65A, maybe. Your boat's alternator is probably good for 75A and in general operation, there's about 20% of safety margin, so figure that it's using about 50A-60A on a regular basis. What the competitors or installers would do is fabricate a bracket and mount a second alternator, completely isolated from the one that runs the car. This way, the starting batter is never affected by the audio system and vice versa. In this configuration, you shouldn't have any problem charging the audio system's batteries- at 12V (used for system design purposes because it's a real-world number), 95A works out to 1140 Watts. Now, this isn't likely to support that load for long, but it does give a ballpark for estimating what you'll need for recharging the batteries for the audio system. At 14.4 VDC, which is the typically-stated full charging voltage in a car or boat and this is not going to be seen at idle unless an alternator is "under-pulleyed", meaning that the alternator's pulley is smaller than normal, causing it to spin faster than it would if the larger pulley was on it. You would need to find the max RPM for the alternator, in order to avoid damage at/near WOT.

            The trick- finding space for a second alternator in a boat. On a V-drive, it should be easier than in a mid-engine model.

            Comment


            • Anyone have any thoughts or reviews of the Blue Sea Systems Add-a-Battery Kit?
              Attached Files

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              • Originally posted by CheeseSteak1 View Post
                Anyone have any thoughts or reviews of the Blue Sea Systems Add-a-Battery Kit?
                This kit and the cumulative parts have been discussed http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...&postcount=305

                Look at other posts where the entire kit is not necessary and read a few more threads. http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...&postcount=307

                It is easy and all of that kit is not needed for battery isolation.

                go to post number one and follow those recommendations and call it a day, KISS and economical - all you need is an isolator and two batteries, cable, fuses, and the correct schematic. everything is in this thread

                Buy one of these for each battery. http://www.amazon.com/NOCO-G1100-Bat.../dp/B004LX3AXQ

                i'd also recommend an upgraded alternator if yours is less than ~100 amps

                good luck on the install.
                Last edited by waterlogged882; 12-13-2014, 01:20 PM.
                93 190
                (safe click)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by waterlogged882 View Post
                  This kit and the cumulative parts have been discussed http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...&postcount=305

                  Look at other posts where the entire kit is not necessary and read a few more threads. http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...&postcount=307

                  It is easy and all of that kit is not needed for battery isolation.

                  go to post number one and follow those recommendations and call it a day, KISS and economical - all you need is an isolator and two batteries, cable, fuses, and the correct schematic. everything is in this thread

                  Buy one of these for each battery. http://www.amazon.com/NOCO-G1100-Bat.../dp/B004LX3AXQ

                  i'd also recommend an upgraded alternator if yours is less than ~100 amps

                  good luck on the install.

                  Thanks! I'll go with Diesel's method with a switch at the dash to control the relay.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CheeseSteak1 View Post
                    Thanks! I'll go with Diesel's method with a switch at the dash to control the relay.
                    Your ignition switch will do just that - accessory position will separate the batteries and on/run will combine them (through the relay) for charging (so a higher capacity alternator output for two batteries is recommended).

                    Don't let me persuade you into something you do or do not want but from my experience, I like to keep it simple.

                    Don't forget the fuses on each hot lead for each battery, etc- there is more to the complete install than meets the eye (extra cable, etc) I like http://www.genuinedealz.com/ for cables and block fuses
                    93 190
                    (safe click)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by waterlogged882 View Post
                      Your ignition switch will do just that - accessory position will separate the batteries and on/run will combine them (through the relay) for charging (so a higher capacity alternator output is recommended).

                      Don't let me persuade you into something you do or do not want but from my experience, I like to keep it simple.

                      Don't forget the fuses on each hot lead for each battery, etc- there is more to the complete install than meets the eye (extra cable, etc) I like http://www.genuinedealz.com/ for cables and block fuses
                      I actually sat down and read this entire thread last night and decided to do just the relay (Kiss). Any idea what happened to Diesel's diagrams? Nothing is showing up on my end. Also, the Brog relay isn't manufactured anymore, so should I use the equivalent Stinger relay? Didn't know if it needs to be marine grade. Thanks for all the links.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by CheeseSteak1 View Post
                        I actually sat down and read this entire thread last night and decided to do just the relay (Kiss). Any idea what happened to Diesel's diagrams? Nothing is showing up on my end. Also, the Brog relay isn't manufactured anymore, so should I use the equivalent Stinger relay? Didn't know if it needs to be marine grade. Thanks for all the links.
                        This thread since Diesel posted has been through two server crashes or upgrades that I know of and someone failed to transfer the photo files or lost the pictures by not transferring them along with the rest of the upgrade. It's gone.

                        The relay has been re-identified with a cross reference (I think it is here in this thread somewhere) but certainly can be cross-referenced easily enough OR you can use the isolation switch that Blue Seas makes without the Perko switch. I think they are too expensive but who am I? Certainly not a smart paralegal to know it all.

                        That Stinger isolator will serve the same purpose at half the price.

                        The diagram that Blue Seas has on their site is just as good for all practical purposes.
                        93 190
                        (safe click)

                        Comment


                        • Continuous-duty solenoids only, are my least favorite means to allow 2 banks to receive a charge when the engine is running, mainly because you have no means to use the house bank for emergency starting. Thats why I like some form of a dual-bank switch.

                          If one is going to go the solenoid only route, I prefer to have it controlled via the key switch rather than manual. Way to easy to forget, and end up with a dead house bank early in the day.

                          The one huge advantage of an ASR/VSR like the BS 7610 has over just a solenoid, is that the ASR/VSR is controlled by voltage and load, where as when the solenoid is closed, both banks are effected by each others draws. Its either open or closed vie the key switch or manually by the captain.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by CheeseSteak1 View Post
                            ..... Any idea what happened to Diesel's diagrams?
                            I have a PDF of the thread (up to Feb 2009) that I found on the internet. It has the pictures and diagram (prior to the mismanaged files). Send me your email in a PM and I'll shoot it over to you. The file is too large for the allowable size of attachment to the thread.
                            93 190
                            (safe click)

                            Comment


                            • If you really want simple the Blue Seas solution is just that. All the parts are marine rated and they provide detailed instructions. This along with a complete rewire of my existing "custom professional" audio system the PO had done was one of the first projects I took after purchasing my 07 X2. I did a post on my installation on this site.

                              From a cost perspective when it comes to wiring in a boat your best money is always best spent doing it right the first time. Buy marine rated wiring and components or expect to be stranded at the dock or worse yet on the water somewhere. My Blue Seas installation with marine rated wiring and components from Genuine Dealz is going on 6 seasons without a hitch.

                              Good luck with your project.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CheeseSteak1 View Post
                                Anyone have any thoughts or reviews of the Blue Sea Systems Add-a-Battery Kit?
                                Originally posted by bturner2 View Post
                                If you really want simple the Blue Seas solution is just that. All the parts are marine rated and they provide detailed instructions. This along with a complete rewire of my existing "custom professional" audio system the PO had done was one of the first projects I took after purchasing my 07 X2. I did a post on my installation on this site.

                                From a cost perspective when it comes to wiring in a boat your best money is always best spent doing it right the first time. Buy marine rated wiring and components or expect to be stranded at the dock or worse yet on the water somewhere. My Blue Seas installation with marine rated wiring and components from Genuine Dealz is going on 6 seasons without a hitch.

                                Good luck with your project.
                                I installed a Blue Seas VSR and new switch in my 06 X30 and it has worked very well. I would assume it would work just as well in a vehicle install.
                                -Tim

                                Making boomers great again!! Boomin'

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