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Prop shaft turns when engine is in gear

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  • #16
    I could see it being forced alignment, that’s a good thought. I’ll try with the pry bar. Good to know it’s a male female joint, I thought it was flush. When I break it free should I be able to slide that whole shaft back freely where the prop moves toward the rudder?

    Yes I agree with you about the off season. I enjoy working on the boat. And I’d way rather do it when it’s cold and not have problems is the summer. Thank you very much for the help.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by sticknrudder View Post
      I could see it being forced alignment, that’s a good thought. I’ll try with the pry bar. Good to know it’s a male female joint, I thought it was flush. When I break it free should I be able to slide that whole shaft back freely where the prop moves toward the rudder?

      Yes I agree with you about the off season. I enjoy working on the boat. And I’d way rather do it when it’s cold and not have problems is the summer. Thank you very much for the help.
      Yes Sir, the shaft will slide back. Remember the prop on the other end. I'd break it loose before disconnecting the shaft, using the connected shaft for holding it in place while tugging on the prop. Loosen the prop nut, leave it on the shaft, then slide an adjustable wrench into the space between the prop and the strut if there is a gap, and give it a whack or two to break the prop loose. Remember the prop hub is tapered to fit the tapered shaft, so there is a particular orientation the prop has to be when reinstalling, to fit the tapers. Easy peasy.

      Best on the fix.

      .
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      • #18
        Finally got it apart! It looks like it is definitely off. I couldn't see much variance laterally but vertically they don't meet unless you lift up on the shaft to fit them together which you can see in the picture. I went ahead and bit the bullet on the strut bearings too. They're on order. Now to try to remove the hub from the shaft...

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        • #19
          Originally posted by sticknrudder View Post
          Finally got it apart! It looks like it is definitely off. I couldn't see much variance laterally but vertically they don't meet unless you lift up on the shaft to fit them together which you can see in the picture. I went ahead and bit the bullet on the strut bearings too. They're on order. Now to try to remove the hub from the shaft...
          Good job. You're on the right track.

          .
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          • #20
            Any reason you can think of that I would need to replace the rubber shaft log? I am going to redo the packing with the goretex type.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by sticknrudder View Post
              Any reason you can think of that I would need to replace the rubber shaft log? I am going to redo the packing with the goretex type.
              There is a dripless unit that does not require packing or adjustments along the way. A matter of convenience and upgrade but the 3/16" packing will work just fine.

              If you use packing, upon reassembly, leave it barely snug tight. Leave the floor out, take it to the river and tighten to the point of drips per minute you prefer. If you tighten it while out of water to what one might perceive good and tight, it will leak excessively. Upon loosening the nut, the packing will not re-conform to OEM; thus start all over. Been there.

              Here is a good read.

              I can recommend the OJ dripless system. No better time to install, relatively inexpensive, easy to install, and years of maintenance-free service.

              .
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              • #22
                New problem. I was watching Ron Tanis' video and he said one of the 4 things to check during alignment is that the engine isn't too low. I noticed that the bell housing appears to be contacting the bottom of the boat as you can see in this picture. What should I do? It appears that alignment wise the engine is already too high because the coupling is lower currently. Seems I am out of room.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by sticknrudder View Post
                  New problem. I was watching Ron Tanis' video and he said one of the 4 things to check during alignment is that the engine isn't too low. I noticed that the bell housing appears to be contacting the bottom of the boat as you can see in this picture. What should I do? It appears that alignment wise the engine is already too high because the coupling is lower currently. Seems I am out of room.
                  He is mostly correct but talks a lot for me. :-)

                  To your question, here are my first thoughts.

                  I have set in new and rebuilt engines in the past with this very consideration at the forefront. The engine has to be set in at approximately 12 deg angle to match the complete co-linear alignment from strut to engine.

                  I mentioned previously about functional engine mounts. They (all four) have to move on their threaded configuration to be able to adjust the engine position. Hear me out. If they all move up and down (wrench), left and right (pry bar), then I would adjust each mount by some equivalent height of about 1/4" - 1/2" to raise the engine for said clearance. You be the judge of that need. The clearance is important. The rear mounts will move more than the front in dimensional movement. Start with the rears, then see where everything will begin to land. If the front needs to come up a little (when aligning the flanges), then move it.

                  Whoever put the engine in place last had no clue as to what they were doing, or were all tanked up while working. Merely an observation.

                  Patience. It will work.

                  After you put the new bearings in, the shaft will find a new location anyway, so all if not futile.

                  Put the bearings in, line the shaft to the center (approximately) of the thru-hull opening, put the log seal in place (whichever one you choose), then put the shaft back in.

                  Attach the prop and move the shaft and prop forward to about 1/2" - 5/8" from the face of the strut or until it lines up best flush with the engine. At that point put the flange back on and with the engine mounts (to raise the engine) in the new position, you can then begin to align the flanges for re-coupling. Patience.

                  The tell tale sign of very close, is when the male/female couplings go together very nicely without having to pull on the shaft to make it fit. If you pull to get the flanges to mate, you are defeating the purpose of the proper alignment.

                  If you need to move the shaft directionally to better align co-linearly, you would need to shim the strut with a stainless skinny washer, because the new bearings and the strut are the center of all things in that boat. Things will change when you do this maintenance but that is what you want. A little tedious, takes patience, but an easy task per se'.

                  If you can get 1/4" -1/2" or so of clearance away from the housing, oil pan, and tracking fin bolts, you are good to go. Every boat is a little different so use best judgement for your situation. From this internet assessment, I don't think you are very far off once you piece it all back together. Did I mention patience?

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                  Last edited by waterlogged882; 01-14-2023, 04:09 PM.
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                  • #24
                    Mr. S&R

                    I went back and read this thread again. When I first read your initial post I processed the read of your concern as the prop was spinning when in neutral. I re-read post number one and see that I had/have misinterpreted your question, thus the hoop-la about slip and creep, also known as known as dirty neutral. The ensuing information is still correct (as applicable) but not to your point and question. My apology for the (dyslectic) read on my part. Your transmission is OK as to your original concern and question. It could still exhibit creep or slip but that is more for another discussion.

                    As the thread progressed about alignment, everything there remains true.

                    So to get to your original question, the prop/shaft would indeed spin regardless of the shifter position as was discussed earlier about the pump. The transmission is not a gear-to-gear engaged drive thus the spin in any shift position with the engine off.

                    Being a little low of fluid is part of life if a fellow hasn't checked the fluid level. I have found mine low also at one time or another.

                    So as the thread goes on, the information that has been discussed is also correct for alignment, disassembly, reassembly, etc. The thread sort of digressed as you became more familiar with the condition of the boat and our discussion of one thing then another.

                    You are on the right track as to the much needed alignment and maintenance, as you have discovered. Good job on that.

                    Best on the solution. The transmission is OK at this point. I feel a little embarrassed about the way I read the topic but the thread has brought the readers to still informative information.

                    .
                    Last edited by waterlogged882; 01-14-2023, 11:18 PM.
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                    • #25
                      Thank you very much for clarifying about the transmission…that makes sense. I know it’s hard diagnosing these issues over the internet sometimes.

                      That is also good to hear that there​ is a solution to this engine being too low. I’ll be honest, when I saw that the coupler was already lower than the engine with the shaft in the middle of the log and the engine was too low, I didn’t see how it could be corrected. But like you said the new strut bearings will change everything. Also good to know there is a way to shim the strut if necessary. I’m looking forward to getting the prop puller and all the parts so I can start working towards completion.

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                      • #26
                        Are you taking this all apart? Taking the shaft out, etc.? I had trouble getting to the shaft coupler nut. To me there's very little room between the back of PowerSlot and the log.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by RxMC View Post
                          Are you taking this all apart? Taking the shaft out, etc.? I had trouble getting to the shaft coupler nut. To me there's very little room between the back of PowerSlot and the log.
                          Yes I am. You’re right, I’m finding it very difficult even to get the cotter pin out with the limited space. Is that how your’s is set up?
                          Attached Files

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                          • #28
                            To your question, that is a correct setup. The photo I posted earlier is an older shaft that was pressed on as an earlier method. I was showing the male lip on the flange when we discussed that point.

                            There are particular tips and tricks for getting this done easier on the gear reduction unit.

                            The nut can be accessed with a half socket (Harbor Freight impact-rated socket and cut one in half or I think there is a pre-fabricated one available to buy). When removing the nut with a half socket, the flange can he held in place with a gadget that comes right from your shop. There are several YouTube videos on these step as well as getting the flange off and on. I think Tanis or Vince (Discount Inboard Marine) addresses all of the tricks. They each have their own video series on the internet machine.

                            The coupling can be walked off (and reinstalled) the shaft with two threaded bolts and a spacer (another socket), with leverage from the transmission flange.

                            The cotter pin is the pain. That slot is to direct the pin in and out but it is still a pain. I use pliers and anything else I can wiggle in there. Last one I did was out of the boat, as I had the engine out so I could pull the shaft out the front direction with the flange attached, instead of the back. Even out of the boat it is a pain. If you can work a long pin punch into the head of the pin as a good starting point, after you finagle with the ear of the pin to get it a little straighter. Again, in theory, the slot is a place to remove the pin.

                            Patience.

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                            Last edited by waterlogged882; 01-15-2023, 10:10 AM.
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                            • #29
                              I like the idea of the punch to get it started. So far all I have tried was angled needle nose pliers like in your picture. But I don’t think I had it up enough yet. What size socket do I need? Is it 1-1/8”?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by sticknrudder View Post
                                I like the idea of the punch to get it started. So far all I have tried was angled needle nose pliers like in your picture. But I don’t think I had it up enough yet. What size socket do I need? Is it 1-1/8”?
                                If I recall correctly, it is 1-1/16".

                                Patience.
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                                John 14:6
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