Prop shaft turns when engine is in gear

[sticknrudder]

I think this is the socket. If not this is similar, but I believe this is the one.

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That socket looks great! I wonder if it’s that 7/16” size. I’ll write the seller and ask.

[waterlogged882]

I think this is the socket. If not this is similar, but I believe this is the one.

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[sticknrudder]

That would be a nice upgrade.

[waterlogged882]

It’s amazing they made the head for those bolts so small. I’ll try to find that socket you were referring to because without it a 7/16” wrench just seems too small.

Wow those are some nasty looking mounts. Looks like quite a job. I hope these move easily.

I do have a large adjustable wrench from HF but I’m afraid it’s not strong enough and might start rounding out the nut. I got an 1-1/8” wrench for $15 so I’ll give that a try.

The new trunnion studs have a true hex head on the piece. I installed a set of them this past summer (PCM part number R095001 - Ford front and R095002 Ford rear).

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[sticknrudder]

It’s amazing they made the head for those bolts so small. I’ll try to find that socket you were referring to because without it a 7/16” wrench just seems too small.

Wow those are some nasty looking mounts. Looks like quite a job. I hope these move easily.

I do have a large adjustable wrench from HF but I’m afraid it’s not strong enough and might start rounding out the nut. I got an 1-1/8” wrench for $15 so I’ll give that a try.

[waterlogged882]

Excellent thank you!

Currently working in freeing the motor mounts. Looks like I’ll need to source and 1-1/8” wrench for the rear jam nuts.]

I think Harbor Freight has a 15" adjustable wrench that will work if I recall correctly. They also have a good size pipe wrench for the rudder port. I have both these tools for this these purposes.

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[waterlogged882]

Excellent thank you!

Currently working in freeing the motor mounts. Looks like I’ll need to source and 1-1/8” wrench for the rear jam nuts. I assume loosen jam nuts and turn bolts with a smaller wrench to adjust, correct?

Correct.

A tid-bit of trivial information...for that particular head on the vertical post, there is a specific name and make (size) of socket for that. I forget what is is called but I saw someone on here mention that several years ago and I saw one on fleabay.

Be careful with that head. It is soft and will round off easily when trying to get the stubborn threads to make way. How do I know? :-)

I have dealt with some nasty engine mounts. One never knows until you get into the mechanics of movement. This one had the rubber isolators seized to the mount. When I got it loose, you can see where it ripped it apart and tore the hub right out of the mechanism.

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[sticknrudder]

Excellent thank you!

Currently working in freeing the motor mounts. Looks like I’ll need to source and 1-1/8” wrench for the rear jam nuts. I assume loosen jam nuts and turn bolts with a smaller wrench to adjust, correct?

[waterlogged882]

I apologize for the length of time it's taking me to fully understand the way the rudder port is built but thanks to your explanation I think I am starting to understand.

So what you're saying is I can reuse the snap ring, the seals I can find at an auto parts store, no need for o rings, and replacing the sleeve is optional. So by buying a kit I'm really just buying it for the sleeve. Just to be sure, the sleeve is the white delrin part, correct? I looked up Tanis' kit but it appears he only has a kit that is 1"... I'm inclined to skip the sleeve altogether if it is sounding like the seals will tighten the tolerance back up at a minimal cost.

That is correct. The sleeve is essential if indeed it is worn. I'd take the port off the boat, then visually inspect in conjunction with an inside/outside micrometer and determine if the sleeve needs replacing. You can also better see how the rudder stem fits and interacts with the sleeve, right there on the work bench.

** I misspoke about the diameter of the rudder shaft. It is 1" (apology). I had driveshaft on the brain and remembered you have a powerslot thus the 1-1/8" dimension. OOPS!

You are correct on the point...reuse the snap ring, replace the seals, clean or buy a new zerk (any auto supply hut) and if you deem (upon inspection) the sleeve needs replacing, then so be it. If not...chicken dinner.

On the other side of the coin, a new kit and be done with any decisions of go / no-go and replace everything. There is something to be said for the convenience of the kit shipped to your door and move on. Your call.

You can re-insert the new seals with a 1" socket and a dead blow hammer to drive them in. Super easy.

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[sticknrudder]

Yours (85 year make) does not have the packing but two common closed face seals just like I posted in the photo above. That is from an 84 I worked on. The rudder stem guide sleeve is the other part that needs replacing while you are there but as you read the caveat in an earlier post.

You have a 1-1/8" diameter shaft. The rudder port is manufactured by South Eastern Foundries.

I'll pass on Skidim due to substandard parts they have sent me in the past with a total hassle / delay for refund. Your call. Maybe it was a one-off experience but I have dealt with them for a lot of years, mostly satisfied.

Looking at their kit: The 84 I did (like yours) does not have a groove for any O-rings. You can reuse your same snap-ring. The seals are common seals from an auto supply hut. Your call on the sleeve as to any savings you may encounter comparing Tanis' parts, but again, I had to file his part a little to enlarge the ID for the stem to go through. No big deal there.

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I apologize for the length of time it's taking me to fully understand the way the rudder port is built but thanks to your explanation I think I am starting to understand.

So what you're saying is I can reuse the snap ring, the seals I can find at an auto parts store, no need for o rings, and replacing the sleeve is optional. So by buying a kit I'm really just buying it for the sleeve. Just to be sure, the sleeve is the white delrin part, correct? I looked up Tanis' kit but it appears he only has a kit that is 1"... I'm inclined to skip the sleeve altogether if it is sounding like the seals will tighten the tolerance back up at a minimal cost.

[waterlogged882]

That’s good to hear the rudder isn’t terrible. I’ve heard there are rudders with prop shaft packing but this isn’t one of those correct? It does have a nut on top with two set screws. That’s not there to allow a slow leak or anything like the packing, correct?

I was on the phone with Vince from Ski DIM and he thought I could rebuild the rudder port in the boat without removing it. Thoughts on that?

Ski DIM has a rebuild kit, one for a 1” rudder one for 1-1/8”. He said just figure on what size mine is and there should be the stuff I need to rebuild in the kit, maybe some of the parts won’t be used.

I recommend removing the port. 1) it is easy to remove / reinstall, and 2) working on the bench makes it much easier to remove the seals. I use a seal puller for the top seal then a punch from the back side for the bottom seal. Your call but removing the port is really easy and value add for the convenience. Been there.

I also recommend new stainless nuts and lock washers in lieu of Ny-lok nuts. Personal preference but I despise Ny-lok as much as I do JB Weld.

The set screws are not for bleeding. Just a secondary locking device.

Yours (85 year make) does not have the packing but two common closed face seals just like I posted in the photo above. That is from an 84 I worked on. The rudder stem guide sleeve is the other part that needs replacing while you are there but as you read the caveat in an earlier post.

You have a 1-1/8" diameter shaft. The rudder port is manufactured by South Eastern Foundries.

I'll pass on Skidim due to substandard parts they have sent me in the past with a total hassle / delay for refund. Your call. Maybe it was a one-off experience but I have dealt with them for a lot of years, mostly satisfied.

Looking at their kit: The 84 I did (like yours) does not have a groove for any O-rings. You can reuse your same snap-ring. The seals are common seals from an auto supply hut. Your call on the sleeve as to any savings you may encounter comparing Tanis' parts, but again, I had to file his part a little to enlarge the ID for the stem to go through. No big deal there.

The rudder rebuild is one of the easier fixes on the steering system.

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[sticknrudder]

That’s good to hear the rudder isn’t terrible. I’ve heard there are rudders with prop shaft packing but this isn’t one of those correct? It does have a nut on top with two set screws. That’s not there to allow a slow leak or anything like the packing, correct?



I was on the phone with Vince from Ski DIM and he thought I could rebuild the rudder port in the boat without removing it. Thoughts on that?

Ski DIM has a rebuild kit, one for a 1” rudder one for 1-1/8”. He said just figure on what size mine is and there should be the stuff I need to rebuild in the kit, maybe some of the parts won’t be used.

[waterlogged882]

.... curious to hear thoughts. Steering is free and smooth, but considering the slop...

I have seen worse movement. I doubt you would notice any particular steering characteristics during operation.

I will say this, I have seen one rudder port get to the point it would not allow the seals to seal out water due to the worn condition from the stem moving in the worn sleeve, to the point of failure from sealing out water. That particular one had to be replaced (the entire rudder port unit). The rudder shaft was also somewhat worn as well but it was salvageable for re-use.

I don't think your rudder port is that far gone but while you are at this point and as easy as the ports are to remove and reinstall, I'd consider rebuilding it.

With these old boats, one thing always leads to another...always. I'd consider putting in a new steering cable but that is another topic of discussion. The OEM Big-T helms and their cables are no longer available, thus requiring a slight dash modification (cutting) to get the new style helms installed. Your call there.

I think the cable (if OK now) would be fine to leave in until another time, but the cable will have to be replaced sooner or later.

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[sticknrudder]

That hose is a great idea. You don't want the shaft resting in the log, that was maybe part of your problem? Remember you are aligning the engine to the shaft. Very easy to think you can just move the shaft this way or that way and it will line up good then you are defeating the purpose.

I thought the hose was a pretty neat idea too. I don't think it was fully resting on the log but it definitely could've been lower than it should have been. The PO installed another transmission and failed to do a proper alignment which caused me to dive deeper and find out the strut bearings were worn. I'm still not so sure about the rudder.

Here’s a video of the play in the rudder:

https://youtu.be/cM3w8KmoUGs

I know it’s difficult to tell from a video but curious to hear thoughts. Steering is free and smooth, but considering the slop I wonder if that will cause problems under load in the water? I have yet to water test this boat.

[sticknrudder]

Do a dry fit before you seal the bolt holes, etc. At that point you'll find out about shimming (or not) and that is really no big deal. A shim merely redirects the strut to guide the shaft closer to the position of getting the shaft thru the log and mate to the transmission coupler (co-linear alignment).

Here is an example of how I set in an engine and align it from tip to tail (co-linear). I set and check with a laser level beam.

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Sounds good, I will do a dry fit for sure. I was going to try it today but ended up having to focus on another project. Hoping to get back to it tomorrow.