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Seems like major engine problems :(

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  • For the life of me I don't know why your still protecting the dealer. Even if this was a freak accident and not related, their lackadaisical handling of this is horrible. The boat ran for 3 hours .


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    • Originally posted by lj_mastercraft View Post
      I'm not trying to put any shop in a bad light at this point, which is why I haven't shared their name yet.
      Originally posted by hondaprlud View Post
      For the life of me I don't know why your still protecting the dealer.
      LJ, you are getting the run around. "I need to talk to this person" "This person needs to talk to the manager over in this department to get confirmation of blah blah blah"

      Confrontation sucks, but its necessary in this situation. Get the person that cuts the checks at the dealership to sit down with you to come up with a reasonable plan of action. Whether you pay to pull the motor and at first to get an unbiased diagnostic, then the dealer takes action based on the diagnostic, whatever it is.

      You were sold a boat with a bad motor that failed right after you purchased it. The timeline of events leading up to the failure is IRRELEVANT. The fact that you put 3 hours on the boat until it failed is IRRELEVANT. You were sold a boat in good faith that simply does not function as it was intended to right after you purchased. It had a bad motor when you bought it. Get it fixed quickly so you can get on the water!!!!
      Kevin

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      • And post the name of the dealer!!! If they do the right thing, then they will be noticed for it, rightfully so. If they don't do the right thing, then they will be noticed for it, rightfully so.
        Kevin

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        • Hah - I appreciate the frank, candid feedback I also recognize it's deserved - while I am not typically afraid of confrontation (almost to a fault), I also want to do the right/honest thing.

          I purchased the boat from Family Powersports in Odessa TX. There's no reason anyone shouldn't know who the dealers is, I was just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt - and hopefully they will come through and do the right thing.

          Part of what is making this difficult is the dealer is 600 miles away. It took me 10 hours to drive the boat home from them, so it's not like I can just go meet with them in person (easily).

          It's true that each time I've taken the boat out I've had an issue with it (which I've paid out of pocket to resolve - just under $3000 total after several separate trips to the local dealer for various issues. Just getting the most recent engine diagnosis, replacing the 8 spark plugs (which were apparently the wrong model in the first place) and the pulley, cost me just shy of $1k).

          I also recognize that I would not dream of running a high performance car engine without any coolant in the radiator, without expecting there was some damage.

          I also don't know that simply saying I was sold a boat that was supposed to be in good operating condition when there was no warranty expressed or implied gives me a leg to stand on in court. Really I think this is going to end up more about whether the dealer wants a good name or not. :/


          Forgive this next paragraph, but I feel the need to express myself a little here...
          I think at this point I still haven't exactly processed the situation i'm in. I have a boat that half the people I speak to say "just run it till it breaks", but at the same time I know i'm looking at a $10k price tag to fix, and it's just a ticking time bomb until it does Maybe I just don't want to think about that.

          I also realized a few days ago that while I used to think the worst that could happen when the engine finally does go (whether in 5 hours, 50, or 500) is i'm stuck on the middle of a lake with a broken engine. Actually I realized it's potentially more than that. Often when picking up a downed skier/wakeboarder/surfer there are times the boat is turned around heading in their direction, and I rely on having throttle forward/reverse to maneuver the boat when we are picking them up or getting them the rope. So worst case is way worse than being stranded - I could be in a situation where i'm heading for someone in the water, and the engine goes out as I give it gas, relying on prop RPMs for a maneuver that results in me hitting someone in the water, running into another boat, or worse. That's actually the reason the boat's been sitting in the driveway the last 2 weeks, I can't put myself in that situation.

          Not sure if any of you have been in this situation, but it's a pretty sucky feeling knowing at any point I could be looking at $10k, which is not money I just keep lying around. As I told the two dealers I've taken it to, if spending $10k was nothing to me, I wouldn't have bought a 12 year old boat - i'd be in a $140k 2017 model. I recognize many of you have boats that cost 4x what mine cost, that are docked in boat houses and docks that cost as much as my entire boat, but everyone's started somewhere, so hopefully all can sympathize with my current situation. I work hard for what I buy, and this boat was no exception. This is the result of months (over a year) of saving, and is going to take me several years to pay the balance off.

          I suppose the reason for me saying that is I don't want you to think i'm going to take this lying down. If I have to end up hiring an attorney, I've got no problem doing that. But I want to be sure i'm not throwing more good money at bad.
          I will call the selling dealer back tomorrow to continue the conversation a little further, as suggested. Would think in a situation like this an easy and fair (keyword) compromise would be that they use their insurance to remedy the issue, and I pay their deductible. Maybe that's wishful thinking.

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          • Looking at the timeline, and doing the arm chair quarterbacking, there is a lesson to be learned here. Once that boat overheated on it's initial test, you should have backed out of the purchase. (Easier said than done, we all have bought things and sort of talked ourselves into thinking they were great deals.) If the motor is torn down, how do you determine if the overheat damaged anything? Or caused all the other issues? The dealer is an expert at the doubletalk necessary to get you to just give up. The inability to communicate with you right away is a ploy unto itself. I would at least consult a lawyer.

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            • You might start by doing a little research on related vehicle laws in TX. If you talk to a local lawyer, they will know more about law in your state rather than TX, plus unless they're licensed in TX, they couldn't represent you there.
              I have no idea how much a case like this would run (if you even have a case), but if you lawyer up, you'll want to have an idea in your head about how much you're willing to pay to have this resolved. It might just take a letter from a lawyer, you might wind up having to take them to court. But talking to a TX lawyer who knows vehicle and 'lemon' laws would be a good start. (Not sure if this is lemon law, but I couldn't think of a better term.)

              The next time you call the dealer, be clear and be firm. Right now, they know they have you in a corner- are you really willing to take time off work and drive 10 hours back to them to deal with this?

              I bought a boat last summer- towed the boat home (12 hours on the road), discovered some gel coat issues. Called the dealer, they said they would take care of it if I brought it back to them. I asked if I could have it done near me and if they'd pay for it. "Nope."
              I decided I wasn't willing to drive 20 hours, spend several nights in a hotel just to have them do the work, so I dropped it.

              That might be what the dealer is thinking- they may be thinking that if they are difficult with you, that you won't be willing to invest the time to tow the boat to them, drive home, then drive back when the engine is done and tow it home. A letter from a lawyer MIGHT change that. If nothing else, a letter might get them thinking about finding some sort of compromise with you- you buy parts, they cover labor or it's split 50-50 or whatever. But you should have an idea of what you 'want' them to do and what you're 'willing to accept' to make this better for you.

              G

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              • @gweaver - I live in TX, and bought from a dealer in TX.

                If necessary I'm willing to fly over there to meet in person if necessary, that's not a problem; it's a 1.25 hour flight.

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                • Originally posted by gweaver View Post
                  You might start by doing a little research on related vehicle laws in TX. If you talk to a local lawyer, they will know more about law in your state rather than TX, plus unless they're licensed in TX, they couldn't represent you there.
                  I have no idea how much a case like this would run (if you even have a case), but if you lawyer up, you'll want to have an idea in your head about how much you're willing to pay to have this resolved. It might just take a letter from a lawyer, you might wind up having to take them to court. But talking to a TX lawyer who knows vehicle and 'lemon' laws would be a good start. (Not sure if this is lemon law, but I couldn't think of a better term.)

                  The next time you call the dealer, be clear and be firm. Right now, they know they have you in a corner- are you really willing to take time off work and drive 10 hours back to them to deal with this?

                  I bought a boat last summer- towed the boat home (12 hours on the road), discovered some gel coat issues. Called the dealer, they said they would take care of it if I brought it back to them. I asked if I could have it done near me and if they'd pay for it. "Nope."
                  I decided I wasn't willing to drive 20 hours, spend several nights in a hotel just to have them do the work, so I dropped it.

                  That might be what the dealer is thinking- they may be thinking that if they are difficult with you, that you won't be willing to invest the time to tow the boat to them, drive home, then drive back when the engine is done and tow it home. A letter from a lawyer MIGHT change that. If nothing else, a letter might get them thinking about finding some sort of compromise with you- you buy parts, they cover labor or it's split 50-50 or whatever. But you should have an idea of what you 'want' them to do and what you're 'willing to accept' to make this better for you.

                  G
                  GWeaver is thinking along my line of thought. Contact an attorney that you know and respect asking for the names of some good attorneys in Texas......I'll bet he knows some! That will get you further than anything else I have seen.
                  Bob

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                  • @lj_mastercraft- my mistake, just saw you're in the southwest. Since you're in TX, that makes it easier to contact a local attorney about your situation. I think most will do a free consult. Maybe gather your notes (you did write all the details down, right?) and talk to a lawyer. I'd think in the hour that you'd get for free, you should be able to get a fairly good sense of the strength (or weakness) of your case. Find a lawyer in Odessa- that way you won't have to pay for them driving back and forth from your home town to represent you. Although again, if you pay a lawyer to write them a letter, they might become more willing to work with you.
                    G

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                    • Lemon law in Texas only applies to new. Unfortunately, on used as is boats, you're SOL
                      Aric


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                      • MC25 is right - I have no legal recourse I'm pretty sure. I will probably consult with an attorney just to be sure, but lemon laws don't apply to used here in TX.

                        This is really going to end up being more about the dealer doing the right thing and maintaining a good reputation in the community :/

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                        • I have a 20 yr old boat. It runs pretty good, but I know at any moment the engine/tranny/efi could fail. So, almost everyone is in the same position as you if they have an older boat. Even new boats fail.

                          Maybe a lawyer can find a way to hold the dealer responsible, then you could pursue that. Likely, it will be difficult to get any money or repair out of a dealer. Also be wary of the lawyer who will take the case and get paid reqardless of the outcome. Then you are just out more money to "a dirty" lawyer.

                          At this point, I see you doing 1 of 3 things:

                          1. Drive it until it breaks and fix it then.

                          2. Fix it now and enjoy it. Both 1 and 2 assume that you want the boat and can't justify having it sit in the garage for years.

                          3. Take it to a dealer and sell it, disclosing the issue and letting them determine if they should fix it first or let the potential new owner repair it their way (new engine vs machine that one. Yes, this will likely mean you lose any down payment that had saved and potentially more money too. However, you may just want to be done with this disaster.

                          For me, I'd just run it until it really breaks. Low compression on an engine is occurring on countless engines in cars and boats right now. If it lasts several years, then great.

                          G/L
                          1997 PS 205

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                          • I'd start looking for a local junk yard and find another engine to swap into the boat. I would replace the bearings, rings and gaskets and have the heads gone through. I don't know if you are mechanically inclined or have a friend who is to help you. But I do my own repairs if possible.

                            Good Luck, maybe the dealer will buy the rebuild kit to keep you happy/ish.
                            1981 MasterCraft
                            19' Skier 351W PowerSlot
                            Long gone is the Trans AM waiting for another

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                            • Does anyone know how much is involved in switching to a new engine? Lets say you come across a used 6.0 or 5.7 with all the accessories (intake, starter, alternator, fuel rail, etc.) Is it just a bolt in, or do you need to worry about wire harness, computer, etc?
                              Last edited by osmonet; 04-07-2017, 11:01 PM. Reason: spelling

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                              • Fairly certain it would require an engine specific ecu. Not huge. Back in the day it's something I would tackle but I've been out of it for too long.
                                Made a few calls today. I can get the entire engine rebuilt (new pistons, machined heads, crankshaft, etc) for under $2500 at a reputable machine shop locally. So worst case I'm looking at paying a few hours to remove the engine, 2500 to rebuild, and a few hours to reinstall.

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