Motor rebuild/updating boat.

[waterlogged882]

I am trying to upload pics but keep getting an error, I apologize for that!

My guess is that you need to resize the photo. The Stingies here have a very small attachment file size limit.

Look closely at the Attachment Manager below the text box or the attachment upload window (near the top of the small window) and it will tell you exactly what the issue is. There is also a legend in the manager that tells acceptable file types and size limits for attaching a photo.

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[Sully_6]

Thanks guy, didn’t realize I could resize once selected.

[Sully_6]

Started to go through all my wiring, I am wanting to clean it up, organize it and understand where everything is, and where it’s going. This project is making me get ocd.

I have removed wiring that was not in use from old speakers, and amplifiers (previous owner just let em hanging) I’ve started removing old light wiring, and now I am working on my ballast switches. I can’t seem to understand how the switches are wired up, each switch apparently runs two separate aerator pumps, one for fill and one for empty. each pump has two wires going into it, but each switch has 3 wires and a jumper to the breaker next to the switch. Obviously it needs power and ground which I can only assume ties into wiring in the dash. But where are the two wires from each pump? Is there a relay of some sort under the dash? I’m frustrated at the mess of wires under the dash/ throughout the boat and all of the plastic tubing that each bundle is in and since I have no wiring schematic I am having to trace it all out.

My plan is to take all switches that are already in the boat and run the wiring in a way that I can easily access or trace out a problem and eliminate all of the splices and stuff like that for my bilge pump, lights, blower, and accessories and also swap my gauges to analog.

[73blue]

Started to go through all my wiring, I am wanting to clean it up, organize it and understand where everything is, and where it’s going. This project is making me get ocd.

I have removed wiring that was not in use from old speakers, and amplifiers (previous owner just let em hanging) I’ve started removing old light wiring, and now I am working on my ballast switches. I can’t seem to understand how the switches are wired up, each switch apparently runs two separate aerator pumps, one for fill and one for empty. each pump has two wires going into it, but each switch has 3 wires and a jumper to the breaker next to the switch. Obviously it needs power and ground which I can only assume ties into wiring in the dash. But where are the two wires from each pump? Is there a relay of some sort under the dash? I’m frustrated at the mess of wires under the dash/ throughout the boat and all of the plastic tubing that each bundle is in and since I have no wiring schematic I am having to trace it all out.

My plan is to take all switches that are already in the boat and run the wiring in a way that I can easily access or trace out a problem and eliminate all of the splices and stuff like that for my bilge pump, lights, blower, and accessories and also swap my gauges to analog.

Would be a good time to upgrade your ballast to reversible pumps while you're in there.

Also, I dont have any experience with this, but as deep as you are into it, might it be easier to separate the hull now. Seems like the wiring, flooring, and engine work would be much simpler.

[Sully_6]

Would be a good time to upgrade your ballast to reversible pumps while you're in there.

Also, I dont have any experience with this, but as deep as you are into it, might it be easier to separate the hull now. Seems like the wiring, flooring, and engine work would be much simpler.

I’ve considered it, however I can access most of the wiring pretty easily how it is now. It is just a mess from past owners adding/removing accessories and leaving stuff in there tied in that’s not even in use. Just lazy stuff.

I may add reversible pumps, but I was just considering upgrading to 1200 gph aerators and calling it good. I will definitely continue looking into the reverse pumps with a thru Hull though because from what I understand I can’t use the existing thru hulls on the back of the boat and the reverse pumps go through the bottom correct?

[Sully_6]

Another update for anyone who may be following.
I am in the process of cleaning my floors and sidewalls where all the old carpet was. Haven't decided the best route to take on sidewall and bow storage replacement since it is rough fiberglass, I am thinking to just use EVA foam instead of going back with carpet and using wakulla mat for my main floor and rear locker flooring.

I have gone through most of my wiring under the dash and was able to trace out nearly everything successfully. I don't understand why my bilge pump and float switch is in the same harness as my fuel pump and sender, I would think that it would be separate but it is what it is since its factory. I am assuming it splits off behind the dash and the sender wire goes to the gauge but haven't removed any of my gauges yet to see for sure.
I have removed my factory ballast harness and am in the process of making a new one with new switches. I've decided to keep the aerator pumps instead of investing more money, time, and drilling into my hull for something that will make no difference in the long run besides 3 fewer pumps.

Now for an interesting note.. I spoke with a guy that services inboard/ wakeboard boats only and explained to him what I am doing with the engine swap. He told me NOT to swap the camshafts, only all the bolt on marine specific parts and do head gaskets(if I wanted to). His explanation was that since they are both vortec 350 tbi motors the camshafts (if they aren't already the exact same) will not be enough of a difference to even notice and shouldn't affect my tuning what so ever or cause water ingestion. So unless anyone chimes in with more concrete evidence as to why I actually should swap cams then I will be keeping the crate motor intact and replacing freeze plugs, starter, alternator, cap etc. and since its out on a stand I'll replace the head gaskets. Upholstery will be sent off in the next week, hopefully if all goes well I will be back on the water in a couple months or less! Will update the thread with more pics once things start coming back together.

[slalomjunkie]

I agree, dont swap it

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[wtrskr]

Another update for anyone who may be following.
I am in the process of cleaning my floors and sidewalls where all the old carpet was. Haven't decided the best route to take on sidewall and bow storage replacement since it is rough fiberglass, I am thinking to just use EVA foam instead of going back with carpet and using wakulla mat for my main floor and rear locker flooring.

I have gone through most of my wiring under the dash and was able to trace out nearly everything successfully. I don't understand why my bilge pump and float switch is in the same harness as my fuel pump and sender, I would think that it would be separate but it is what it is since its factory. I am assuming it splits off behind the dash and the sender wire goes to the gauge but haven't removed any of my gauges yet to see for sure.
I have removed my factory ballast harness and am in the process of making a new one with new switches. I've decided to keep the aerator pumps instead of investing more money, time, and drilling into my hull for something that will make no difference in the long run besides 3 fewer pumps.

Now for an interesting note.. I spoke with a guy that services inboard/ wakeboard boats only and explained to him what I am doing with the engine swap. He told me NOT to swap the camshafts, only all the bolt on marine specific parts and do head gaskets(if I wanted to). His explanation was that since they are both vortec 350 tbi motors the camshafts (if they aren't already the exact same) will not be enough of a difference to even notice and shouldn't affect my tuning what so ever or cause water ingestion. So unless anyone chimes in with more concrete evidence as to why I actually should swap cams then I will be keeping the crate motor intact and replacing freeze plugs, starter, alternator, cap etc. and since its out on a stand I'll replace the head gaskets. Upholstery will be sent off in the next week, hopefully if all goes well I will be back on the water in a couple months or less! Will update the thread with more pics once things start coming back together.

That's interesting. I found the lack of transparency on Camshafts very frustrating. When I obtained my short block, it would have come with a new camshaft if I was using if for an automotive application. Since I was using mine for a marine purpose, they didn't include the camshaft and I was told to swap my old one. If automotive and marine camshafts are pretty much the same, I sure would have liked the new one!

The research I did does agree that the new engine should work with the existing ECM. The part I wonder about is the performance? I use my Prostar for slalom skiing, so I wanted to ensure mine was setup well for that purpose.

The other part of the performance is your heads. I think you can look up the casting number for the old and the new, to see if they are similar in terms of torque, etc. I'm guessing the new ones are fine, but it may be worthwhile checking. As I described previously, a local machine shop looked up mine while we were on the phone and described to me the torque profile.

If you are keeping the camshaft and heads that are already in place on the new engine, and everything is still bolted together, I would not take it apart just to replace with marine head gaskets. To me you would be inviting more potential problems than the risk that the existing automotive head gaskets won't hold. I was told by an engine remanufacturer that you can get by with automotive head gaskets if you won't be seeing salt water.

[Sully_6]

That's interesting. I found the lack of transparency on Camshafts very frustrating. When I obtained my short block, it would have come with a new camshaft if I was using if for an automotive application. Since I was using mine for a marine purpose, they didn't include the camshaft and I was told to swap my old one. If automotive and marine camshafts are pretty much the same, I sure would have liked the new one!

The research I did does agree that the new engine should work with the existing ECM. The part I wonder about is the performance? I use my Prostar for slalom skiing, so I wanted to ensure mine was setup well for that purpose.

The other part of the performance is your heads. I think you can look up the casting number for the old and the new, to see if they are similar in terms of torque, etc. I'm guessing the new ones are fine, but it may be worthwhile checking. As I described previously, a local machine shop looked up mine while we were on the phone and described to me the torque profile.

If you are keeping the camshaft and heads that are already in place on the new engine, and everything is still bolted together, I would not take it apart just to replace with marine head gaskets. To me you would be inviting more potential problems than the risk that the existing automotive head gaskets won't hold. I was told by an engine remanufacturer that you can get by with automotive head gaskets if you won't be seeing salt water.

I agree with you on the head gaskets, since I had posted I spent a lot of time thinking and also realized that with these motors we have aren't making enough HP to really harm the head gaskets and if worse ever came to worse and I had to swap them out in the future It wouldn't be overly challenging to do it while it is in the boat.

I also can't say for sure on the performance end of things what will happen when I run this new motor. Both blocks have vortec heads, the new motor potentially already has an Rv cam in it and everything on the new motor is already mated together. If I see a huge performance decrease (although doubtful) I will be prepared to yank the motor and swap the camshaft. It is a risk I am willing to take at this point, can have the motor pulled and reinstalled in a weekend if it came down to it.
I will definitely update after I get to run this motor in the next month or two. I am optimistic so Hopefully all goes well on that end of things.

[wtrskr]

In a Prostar you can swap the camshaft and/or swap the heads without pulling the engine. I'm not sure if you'd have stuff in the way to do that on an x10? In my Prostar I think I'd need to pull the pylon in order to slide in the new camshaft. It's probably worth trying the engine as is and dealing with it after if needed.

Cleaning gasket debris off the heads and the block surface is the worst, so hopefully you can avoid that step.

[Sully_6]

Bad news, just tore down the new motor to begin swapping parts over. New motor doesn't have vortec heads, and has a flat tappet cam. Its my fault for listening to the guy who sold me the motor but I also didn't know that I could've simply popped off a valve cover and shined a light down into the intake to see that there is no dog bone/spider. Now I am on the search for a new motor.

Good news is that my interior is at the upholstery shop, and I just finished up replacing the seals on my transmission.
Most of my ballast connections have arrived besides my new ski locker bag and 3 pumps(these were on backorder)

My marine wiring arrived late yesterday evening along with my new ballast rocker switches. New gauges are here and ready to be put into the boat. I'm at the beginning of the end now so long as I can get a motor to my shop in a reasonable amount of time. Will update soon.

[Sully_6]

I suppose I do have one other option.
Strip the old motor down completely and remove the cam, lifters, etc order new vortec heads and head gaskets and swap all of those parts into the crate engine. The crate is drilled to accept a roller cam system. Would save me a little bit of coin going this route.

[wtrskr]

I suppose I do have one other option.
Strip the old motor down completely and remove the cam, lifters, etc order new vortec heads and head gaskets and swap all of those parts into the crate engine. The crate is drilled to accept a roller cam system. Would save me a little bit of coin going this route.

That is what I was thinking when I read your last post. What kind shape do you think your current heads are in? How many hours on them?

If you have a roller setup, just by logic, I would think your cam and lifters should have a lot of life in them. I would think wheels wear down the Cam way slower than the metal vs. metal rubbing of a flat tappet.

You could take your heads in to a machine shop to get reworked. Alternatively, you could do something like in the Protour restoration thread that is ongoing: https://teamtalk.mastercraft.com/sho...=108044&page=4

[Sully_6]

That is what I was thinking when I read your last post. What kind shape do you think your current heads are in? How many hours on them?

If you have a roller setup, just by logic, I would think your cam and lifters should have a lot of life in them. I would think wheels wear down the Cam way slower than the metal vs. metal rubbing of a flat tappet.

You could take your heads in to a machine shop to get reworked. Alternatively, you could do something like in the Protour restoration thread that is ongoing: https://teamtalk.mastercraft.com/sho...=108044&page=4

Haven't removed the heads just yet, but they look rough on the ports. Bunch of rust etc. which I know is pretty normal. They have around 950 hours on them. I pulled the lifters and pushrods last night, the pushrods look good to the eye and all rollers are butter smooth still with no signs of wear. I am going to take my heads to a guy up here in the city that specializes in them and see if he can get them reworked for me. I was a little bit frustrated yesterday when I realized the new motor had a flat tappet and gm heads and I jumped to the conclusion of just buying a new motor but in reality I'm not that far off from being able to just swap the camshaft, lifters and rods, the old motor is already halfway done and the new one is as well. I'm taking a day away from the boat though so I can get back to it with a better attitude.

[1redTA]

does your block have holes in the lifter valley for the roller spider? vortec and TBI were not a factory option from GM but some of the TBI blocks had the bosses. Truck cams have so little lift and duration you aren’t going to have any problems running it. The vortec heads are way worth the money to run on a TBI engine BUT the TBI vortec specific intake is $$$!