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Motor rebuild/updating boat.

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  • Sully_6
    replied
    I figure that I would update this thread, my project took a halt for awhile due to my job and things of that nature. I still plan to have it completed come boating season here in OK which is a couple months away. My heads are currently getting a full workover and should be back to me in a week or so. The heads are all I am waiting for to get my engine completely back together, have already installed the cam, pistons, crankshaft, freeze plugs, and bearings. Once heads are done I can finish off the top side of motor and add all the marine components/ wiring. I have plumbed an entirely new ballast system and switches. added wakula mat to all of my storage compartments, and got my interior back from the upholstery shop (waiting to install after motor is back in the boat to eliminate any chance of ruining any pieces while I get everything back together. Plan on making my flooring template this weekend and get the mat cut. Will update with some pictures in just a moment and continue to update thread as I hit the tail end of this project.

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  • Sully_6
    replied
    Originally posted by waterlogged882 View Post
    New gauges look nice.

    .
    Thank you, hoping that I have it all wired up correctly. There are about 7 wires that I have capped off. I believe they are not to be used anymore.

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  • waterlogged882
    replied
    New gauges look nice.

    .

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  • Sully_6
    replied
    Update!

    I feel as though an update is needed since it’s been a few weeks.
    There was a HUGE problem with the motor I purchased…. It had a severely scored cylinder from a wrist pin. I confronted the guy I bought it from and they gave me another low mileage vortec roller block.
    I immediately broke it down and sent the block to a machine shop to have them check everything, clean it, install new bearings and possibly bore it out if need be. (I got kinda fu$&ed on the motor deal but they did what they could to make it right and I’m moving forward (they still claim that they were completely unaware of the cylinder) anyway.
    Interior has been started on and should be done this week or next, and motor should be done around the same time.

    I have since installed all of my new gauges including perfect pass, sprayed Bed liner in all of my storage compartments, sidewalls, and on my center floor plates. Just received my flooring in the mail, and am working on plumbing in my ballast system and wiring in my blue seas switch and ACR.
    Still have a little ways to go but I am starting to see the light.
    Attached Files

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  • 1redTA
    replied
    that sounds like a better plan than a tbi

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  • Sully_6
    replied
    Originally posted by 1redTA View Post
    does your block have holes in the lifter valley for the roller spider? vortec and TBI were not a factory option from GM but some of the TBI blocks had the bosses. Truck cams have so little lift and duration you aren’t going to have any problems running it. The vortec heads are way worth the money to run on a TBI engine BUT the TBI vortec specific intake is $$$!

    So on the truck motor I bought, it has the same block numbers, and is a TBI motor.
    it does have tapped holes and everything setup to run roller cam and lifters etc, it just has a flat tappet in it right now.

    My boats original motor has the vortec heads, mastercraft/vortec intake, roller cam.
    My plan has now changed so I will actually be swapping the roller cam, lifters, spider, from the boats engine and either having my heads reworked or buying a new set.
    I had already planned on swapping my intake over but now I’m also swapping the camshafts and heads.

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  • 1redTA
    replied
    does your block have holes in the lifter valley for the roller spider? vortec and TBI were not a factory option from GM but some of the TBI blocks had the bosses. Truck cams have so little lift and duration you aren’t going to have any problems running it. The vortec heads are way worth the money to run on a TBI engine BUT the TBI vortec specific intake is $$$!

    Leave a comment:


  • Sully_6
    replied
    Originally posted by wtrskr View Post
    That is what I was thinking when I read your last post. What kind shape do you think your current heads are in? How many hours on them?

    If you have a roller setup, just by logic, I would think your cam and lifters should have a lot of life in them. I would think wheels wear down the Cam way slower than the metal vs. metal rubbing of a flat tappet.

    You could take your heads in to a machine shop to get reworked. Alternatively, you could do something like in the Protour restoration thread that is ongoing: https://teamtalk.mastercraft.com/sho...=108044&page=4
    Haven't removed the heads just yet, but they look rough on the ports. Bunch of rust etc. which I know is pretty normal. They have around 950 hours on them. I pulled the lifters and pushrods last night, the pushrods look good to the eye and all rollers are butter smooth still with no signs of wear. I am going to take my heads to a guy up here in the city that specializes in them and see if he can get them reworked for me. I was a little bit frustrated yesterday when I realized the new motor had a flat tappet and gm heads and I jumped to the conclusion of just buying a new motor but in reality I'm not that far off from being able to just swap the camshaft, lifters and rods, the old motor is already halfway done and the new one is as well. I'm taking a day away from the boat though so I can get back to it with a better attitude.

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  • wtrskr
    replied
    Originally posted by Sully_6 View Post
    I suppose I do have one other option.
    Strip the old motor down completely and remove the cam, lifters, etc order new vortec heads and head gaskets and swap all of those parts into the crate engine. The crate is drilled to accept a roller cam system. Would save me a little bit of coin going this route.
    That is what I was thinking when I read your last post. What kind shape do you think your current heads are in? How many hours on them?

    If you have a roller setup, just by logic, I would think your cam and lifters should have a lot of life in them. I would think wheels wear down the Cam way slower than the metal vs. metal rubbing of a flat tappet.

    You could take your heads in to a machine shop to get reworked. Alternatively, you could do something like in the Protour restoration thread that is ongoing: https://teamtalk.mastercraft.com/sho...=108044&page=4

    Leave a comment:


  • Sully_6
    replied
    I suppose I do have one other option.
    Strip the old motor down completely and remove the cam, lifters, etc order new vortec heads and head gaskets and swap all of those parts into the crate engine. The crate is drilled to accept a roller cam system. Would save me a little bit of coin going this route.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sully_6
    replied
    Bad news, just tore down the new motor to begin swapping parts over. New motor doesn't have vortec heads, and has a flat tappet cam. Its my fault for listening to the guy who sold me the motor but I also didn't know that I could've simply popped off a valve cover and shined a light down into the intake to see that there is no dog bone/spider. Now I am on the search for a new motor.

    Good news is that my interior is at the upholstery shop, and I just finished up replacing the seals on my transmission.
    Most of my ballast connections have arrived besides my new ski locker bag and 3 pumps(these were on backorder)

    My marine wiring arrived late yesterday evening along with my new ballast rocker switches. New gauges are here and ready to be put into the boat. I'm at the beginning of the end now so long as I can get a motor to my shop in a reasonable amount of time. Will update soon.
    Last edited by Sully_6; 06-05-2021, 06:02 PM. Reason: Needed to rewrite comment

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  • wtrskr
    replied
    In a Prostar you can swap the camshaft and/or swap the heads without pulling the engine. I'm not sure if you'd have stuff in the way to do that on an x10? In my Prostar I think I'd need to pull the pylon in order to slide in the new camshaft. It's probably worth trying the engine as is and dealing with it after if needed.

    Cleaning gasket debris off the heads and the block surface is the worst, so hopefully you can avoid that step.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sully_6
    replied
    Originally posted by wtrskr View Post
    That's interesting. I found the lack of transparency on Camshafts very frustrating. When I obtained my short block, it would have come with a new camshaft if I was using if for an automotive application. Since I was using mine for a marine purpose, they didn't include the camshaft and I was told to swap my old one. If automotive and marine camshafts are pretty much the same, I sure would have liked the new one!

    The research I did does agree that the new engine should work with the existing ECM. The part I wonder about is the performance? I use my Prostar for slalom skiing, so I wanted to ensure mine was setup well for that purpose.

    The other part of the performance is your heads. I think you can look up the casting number for the old and the new, to see if they are similar in terms of torque, etc. I'm guessing the new ones are fine, but it may be worthwhile checking. As I described previously, a local machine shop looked up mine while we were on the phone and described to me the torque profile.

    If you are keeping the camshaft and heads that are already in place on the new engine, and everything is still bolted together, I would not take it apart just to replace with marine head gaskets. To me you would be inviting more potential problems than the risk that the existing automotive head gaskets won't hold. I was told by an engine remanufacturer that you can get by with automotive head gaskets if you won't be seeing salt water.
    I agree with you on the head gaskets, since I had posted I spent a lot of time thinking and also realized that with these motors we have aren't making enough HP to really harm the head gaskets and if worse ever came to worse and I had to swap them out in the future It wouldn't be overly challenging to do it while it is in the boat.

    I also can't say for sure on the performance end of things what will happen when I run this new motor. Both blocks have vortec heads, the new motor potentially already has an Rv cam in it and everything on the new motor is already mated together. If I see a huge performance decrease (although doubtful) I will be prepared to yank the motor and swap the camshaft. It is a risk I am willing to take at this point, can have the motor pulled and reinstalled in a weekend if it came down to it.
    I will definitely update after I get to run this motor in the next month or two. I am optimistic so Hopefully all goes well on that end of things.

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  • wtrskr
    replied
    Originally posted by Sully_6 View Post
    Another update for anyone who may be following.
    I am in the process of cleaning my floors and sidewalls where all the old carpet was. Haven't decided the best route to take on sidewall and bow storage replacement since it is rough fiberglass, I am thinking to just use EVA foam instead of going back with carpet and using wakulla mat for my main floor and rear locker flooring.

    I have gone through most of my wiring under the dash and was able to trace out nearly everything successfully. I don't understand why my bilge pump and float switch is in the same harness as my fuel pump and sender, I would think that it would be separate but it is what it is since its factory. I am assuming it splits off behind the dash and the sender wire goes to the gauge but haven't removed any of my gauges yet to see for sure.
    I have removed my factory ballast harness and am in the process of making a new one with new switches. I've decided to keep the aerator pumps instead of investing more money, time, and drilling into my hull for something that will make no difference in the long run besides 3 fewer pumps.

    Now for an interesting note.. I spoke with a guy that services inboard/ wakeboard boats only and explained to him what I am doing with the engine swap. He told me NOT to swap the camshafts, only all the bolt on marine specific parts and do head gaskets(if I wanted to). His explanation was that since they are both vortec 350 tbi motors the camshafts (if they aren't already the exact same) will not be enough of a difference to even notice and shouldn't affect my tuning what so ever or cause water ingestion. So unless anyone chimes in with more concrete evidence as to why I actually should swap cams then I will be keeping the crate motor intact and replacing freeze plugs, starter, alternator, cap etc. and since its out on a stand I'll replace the head gaskets. Upholstery will be sent off in the next week, hopefully if all goes well I will be back on the water in a couple months or less! Will update the thread with more pics once things start coming back together.
    That's interesting. I found the lack of transparency on Camshafts very frustrating. When I obtained my short block, it would have come with a new camshaft if I was using if for an automotive application. Since I was using mine for a marine purpose, they didn't include the camshaft and I was told to swap my old one. If automotive and marine camshafts are pretty much the same, I sure would have liked the new one!

    The research I did does agree that the new engine should work with the existing ECM. The part I wonder about is the performance? I use my Prostar for slalom skiing, so I wanted to ensure mine was setup well for that purpose.

    The other part of the performance is your heads. I think you can look up the casting number for the old and the new, to see if they are similar in terms of torque, etc. I'm guessing the new ones are fine, but it may be worthwhile checking. As I described previously, a local machine shop looked up mine while we were on the phone and described to me the torque profile.

    If you are keeping the camshaft and heads that are already in place on the new engine, and everything is still bolted together, I would not take it apart just to replace with marine head gaskets. To me you would be inviting more potential problems than the risk that the existing automotive head gaskets won't hold. I was told by an engine remanufacturer that you can get by with automotive head gaskets if you won't be seeing salt water.

    Leave a comment:


  • slalomjunkie
    replied
    I agree, dont swap it

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

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