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2000 Prostar 190 - Cranks but won’t start

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  • 2000 Prostar 190 - Cranks but won’t start

    Hello all,
    I have followed TT for years but this is my first new thread.
    I have a 2000 prostar 190 with a Vortec 5.7l 330hp LTR Northstar multi port EFI .
    It has been running fine but as I hadn’t ran it for two weeks I let it warm up a little longer than normal while cleaning it off. I reversed and then forward at a putt for about 100ft and it just shut down, no alarm, just like someone turned key off.
    I have seen some threads here that are very similar but at some point don’t sound exactly the same.
    I have checked the emerg safety lanyard at the shifter and it has fuel in the tank, also checked for spark by taking a plug out and putting wire on plug to ground but I couldn’t see spark. Also, no fuel in cylinder as after cranking the spark plugs are still dry. I was thinking of testing for my fuel pressure but I believe something else is preventing the ignition and fuel pump from working normally. Other threads have suggested that the Ei module/ ECM or multi coil pack may be blown.
    I have tried the red reset button at the ECM and disconnected the battery as an alternative reset with no better result. Also checked the 15 amp fuses on top of the ECM and all are visibly good.
    I have to say I get by with minimal mechanical knowledge and don’t know where some of the important parts are on this motor. There has been talk of crank sensors being an issue and need to find and check them but would need to know how to check if they are good.

    Can anyone tell me why the systems seem to be shut down, either by safety reason or by some part that is needing replacement ?

    Thanks for any help you may offer, as all service shops in my area are 3-4 weeks wait and I need to ski or my old bones may not remember how.

    Flybird

  • #2
    Did you put a meter on the safety switch to make sure it works when open and closed, ie clip on or clip off? Just because the wires are on on it doesn't mean its working correctly.

    Can you hear the fuel pump PRIME up when the ignition is turned on?

    Not real familiar with the LTR but if you have two relays in the back by the fuses, just swap the relays; provided they are the same pin configuration. Good luck
    1993 25th Anniversary Limited ProStar 190, #17

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for your response Bret.
      I have isolated the kill switch at the connection tab and jumped
      With a wire; I also tried your idea of switching relays at rear by the ecm and inline fuse area and no change in status. Yes, I can hear the fuel rails pressurizing and checked at the schrader value and there is fuel in rails.
      A car mechanic friend checked the crank sensors and said they were good.
      All fuses under the dash are good bad the three in-line over the ecm are good.
      I don’t know all locations of fuses and can’t find anymore but feel that may be my simple fix, or at least hoping that.

      Comment


      • #4
        If you have both spark and fuel then pull the neutral knob out on the throttle give it full throttle and try to start.
        Or you can try the wiggle test while someone is trying to start. Wiggle the yellow connector on top of fuel pump while cranking. Then wiggle the connectors at the crank position sensors while cranking.

        The kill switch kills the ignition system but you say you have jumpered this out.

        If these don't work you should get a fuel pressure tester to see what kind of fuel pressure you have. Pump only primes only for a few seconds at key on. Pump should run while cranking. Fuel pressure tester should be appx 45-50psi and should hold from a bit once the key is turned off or you quit cranking.

        If pressure is good then get Spark checker that can determine if you have spark.

        Below are some basic schematics on the systems. Using a 12 volt test light you should be able to test for voltage at all key locations.

        Hope this helps.
        Attached Files
        99 MariStar 230 Sport LTR 330

        Comment


        • #5
          Thx for your response myajpa,
          I have tried to start with full throttle as you said and nothing changed; have determined the fuel pump is priming and has pressure in fuel rails but not getting to the the cylinders. We tried putting fuel in the throttle body and turned over, partly as another way to check for spark, and no change no fire. After getting a few more hints from others, I believe the system or ECM is not receiving info. and then shuts things down, and one thought it the crank sensors were a possible culprit; as said above we checked these and seemed good but think we may not have tested them properly.

          I have since found a reputable marine to take a look at it and could do in decent timeframe , so I won’t be able to test further; the marine has called with a preliminary report and wants to do further diagnostics ; the computer didn’t tell them anything. They are leaning towards the crank sensors not working or not working properly and not sending correctly to the ECM , so it shuts everything down.
          The problem also becomes that the marine has said these sensors are discontinued and have to be sourced otherwise; used or refurbished. They want to test to confirm this but want to rule out something to do with a part called “reluctor” ; I don’t know what that is .
          I will keep you updated when I get the final word.

          Thanks again

          Does anyone know of a good source for parts on this vintage of boat

          Comment


          • #6
            You did say you checked the fuses on top of the ECM there should be 3 of them. This would be a common problem if MEFI main fuse is blown.

            Relector is the rotating part on crankshaft. It is notched and is what creates the Crank Position Sensor magnetic pulse as the notches pass across the CPS end. Maybe not the best description but unless it is completely rusted of it is probably not the issue.

            There is a whole section on these sensors.
            https://teamtalk.mastercraft.com/showthread.php?t=58122

            The crank position sensors are available from this source.
            https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687845582.html
            99 MariStar 230 Sport LTR 330

            Comment


            • #7
              Just got the latest update, the shop has confirmed the Crank position sensors are good but the ICM is the problem, they believe the ignition multi coil packs are ok but to be conclusive, need to have engine running and do further voltage testing etc; of course this part is also discontinued and the shop has checked all obvious sources , GM & Delco mentioned.
              They are checking a few other possibilities and used parts but will leave it to me if nothing turns up easily.
              I searched the aliexpress site quickly and nothing turned up but need to spend more time at that, to be sure.
              Thanks for the links and I’ve seen other threads with similar issues and will need to read in more depth, one mentioned that they took ecm to shop to have tested and it was good, I am debating whether I take back and try to solve from here but as said, I’m not that mechanically knowledgeable.
              I will do more research here on threads.

              Thanks for anything further and help so far.

              Comment


              • #8
                Call Technical Services in Syracuse IN and see if they can help with the ICM, maybe or maybe not. Not sure when they got out of building stuff for MC but worth a call.
                (574) 457-4004. Ask for Alan Tehan if he's available; if he can't help he maybe able to tell you who can.
                1993 25th Anniversary Limited ProStar 190, #17

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for the lead Bret,
                  I have contacted TS and waiting to hear back.
                  My shop has found a used part online but I am searching further to see if anything aftermarket new can be found.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Update :
                    I found a used icm from an auto wrecker that matched part no’s here on TT and online for cross of original; took boat from shop as assume they have checked all other possible causes in their determination of the issue. The used part was not guaranteed to work but took chance and it didn’t work. Have tried to find a way to test the icm’s myself. Used schematics from mtajpa and Indmar; have power and good ground to the unit and readings from the crank position sensors , but no power coming out of the units to the ECM when cranking. I took off one coil pack to test if power getting to it and no power from one terminal to other but using an engine ground, the test light shows power with ignition on and pulsates when cranking; not sure I’m testing properly but as no power coming out of either unit , I believe both are bad and have already sourced another to try; it has been working recently.

                    The crossed part numbers did not match exactly and I assumed they may have changed over time as very close 1103966 on my original part and 1103971 on the cross reference from TT and online sources.

                    I’m still concerned there may be a problem that could be causing the no start, but until I know I have a functioning icm, I will continue in this direction.

                    If anyone knows how to bench test an ICM unit, it would be appreciated ; online is unclear to me if methods used are correct. One said to use ohm meter across the unit itself or from one side of the ICM pad to the other.
                    Am I on the right track ?

                    Thanks for any further help.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So, I have installed the 2nd used ICM with coil packs intact which came out of a working engine just last week, and no change to my issue of : will crank no start.

                      Correction to last post: when ground to engine and cranking the test light attached to one coil pack was not pulsating but went weaker than when just ignition on.

                      I have done some further testing of continuity and resistance on the CPS circuit as following a diagnosis chart given by Indmar, it is leading me to believe they still may be an issue but again I’m trying to put all this together without much experience in this stuff. I have continuity through wires connecting icm to cps and resistance is 570 ohms. The diagnosis chart says if resistance is less than 800, then ‘locate and repair crankshaft position sensor circuits shorted together’ .
                      The only way I know to repair is to replace, if indeed my deduction is correct.
                      The reputable shop thought these were an issue at first but then said they were good.
                      Confusing ?
                      Any thoughts ,
                      Thanks

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hello, I thought I would update as I'm still no closer to finding a solution to this problem and will have to take back to a marine shop to look at further; luckily I have a line on a few good mechanics that work on the side. Although I'm willing to pay for good service, I have had 3 hours in the shop and still no further ahead after replacing everything that was determined a possible cause: the ICM and the crank position sensors( ordered from Aliexpress-China ).

                        I have been told that even though my engine computer doesn't tell much ( the marine shop said it did not help with this issue), that if it is not reset or codes cleared, that the problem may not be resolved even if new parts are installed that should work, as the computer still thinks there is a problem and acts the same way which is no start.
                        Can anyone confirm this to be the case or have any further suggestions on this issue ?

                        I have attempted to check some continuity and voltage from charts that were given me but I'm out of my league with that and not sure what things are supposed to be, to know if they are my issue.
                        Thanks for any further help, and I will report back once I have this resolved,,,,

                        But as they say : definition of " boat" = Bring Out Another Thousand

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This may be unhelpful, but have you eliminated the ignition switch as the cause? If you have power to the coil packs in the on position but not in the start position it could be the switch. Hook up a starter button to the starter and turn the switch to on, then try starting it with the button. if it starts you have a bad switch. It only takes a few minutes.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Crank sensors are from a russian Lada automobile. Cross ref with the northstar ignition system. Also check ok connection from coil pack assembly to icm. Also have the battery cables ever been changed? If they are oem they could be the culprit.

                            Can you post up a pic of your icm and coil pak?

                            Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
                            sigpic...A bad day water skiing still beats a good day at work...1995 Pro Star 205....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks for the recent replies.
                              I'm away from the boat location for a few days but will get back to it soon and check further.

                              I assumed I have power to where it's needed if it will crank in start position; have ruled out and bypassed Kill switch but was thinking I'd try crossing the starter just to see.

                              I ordered the CP sensors with info. from TT threads posted a while ago which referenced motors that would take the same sensor; they are same size and shape and seem to be the correct match. I haven't determined positively if the circuit from ICM to ECM is good for continuity but did check for power coming out from ICM with first replaced used ICM, but now have to check with the second known working used ICM, will do again. I haven't replaced the battery cables, they look good , and assumed they were good, as there is good cranking power to the starter, and have power to relays.

                              Here is a pic of the front side of motor- ICM. Sorry if quality is less than desirable but the size allowed is so small, it does this on resizing.

                              Just talked to Marine shop to gain further insight into the testing which was done by them;
                              they did check some circuitry to the ECM and power and grounds circuitry to most things that seemed relevant and all was good. The ECM was telling them some info but not specific to this crank but no start issue, so although it could still be faulty, they initially believe it to be good until known other parts replaced and further tests then done.

                              They have said to check with Mefi-burn ( I've seen this on other threads) to see if they can help or at least source a working ECM as there is no way to test other than replace with known working part.

                              Thanks for any other input.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

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