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Old 07-20-2021, 01:34 AM
flybird flybird is offline
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Boat: Last boat- 2000 Prostar 190
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2000 Prostar 190 - Cranks but wonít start

Hello all,
I have followed TT for years but this is my first new thread.
I have a 2000 prostar 190 with a Vortec 5.7l 330hp LTR Northstar multi port EFI .
It has been running fine but as I hadnít ran it for two weeks I let it warm up a little longer than normal while cleaning it off. I reversed and then forward at a putt for about 100ft and it just shut down, no alarm, just like someone turned key off.
I have seen some threads here that are very similar but at some point donít sound exactly the same.
I have checked the emerg safety lanyard at the shifter and it has fuel in the tank, also checked for spark by taking a plug out and putting wire on plug to ground but I couldnít see spark. Also, no fuel in cylinder as after cranking the spark plugs are still dry. I was thinking of testing for my fuel pressure but I believe something else is preventing the ignition and fuel pump from working normally. Other threads have suggested that the Ei module/ ECM or multi coil pack may be blown.
I have tried the red reset button at the ECM and disconnected the battery as an alternative reset with no better result. Also checked the 15 amp fuses on top of the ECM and all are visibly good.
I have to say I get by with minimal mechanical knowledge and donít know where some of the important parts are on this motor. There has been talk of crank sensors being an issue and need to find and check them but would need to know how to check if they are good.

Can anyone tell me why the systems seem to be shut down, either by safety reason or by some part that is needing replacement ?

Thanks for any help you may offer, as all service shops in my area are 3-4 weeks wait and I need to ski or my old bones may not remember how.

Flybird
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  #2  
Old 07-20-2021, 01:57 PM
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bret bret is offline
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Boat: Prostar 190, 1993, Anniversary Limited.
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Did you put a meter on the safety switch to make sure it works when open and closed, ie clip on or clip off? Just because the wires are on on it doesn't mean its working correctly.

Can you hear the fuel pump PRIME up when the ignition is turned on?

Not real familiar with the LTR but if you have two relays in the back by the fuses, just swap the relays; provided they are the same pin configuration. Good luck
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Old 07-21-2021, 12:06 AM
flybird flybird is offline
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Thanks for your response Bret.
I have isolated the kill switch at the connection tab and jumped
With a wire; I also tried your idea of switching relays at rear by the ecm and inline fuse area and no change in status. Yes, I can hear the fuel rails pressurizing and checked at the schrader value and there is fuel in rails.
A car mechanic friend checked the crank sensors and said they were good.
All fuses under the dash are good bad the three in-line over the ecm are good.
I don’t know all locations of fuses and can’t find anymore but feel that may be my simple fix, or at least hoping that.
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Old 07-23-2021, 07:25 PM
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mtajpa mtajpa is offline
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If you have both spark and fuel then pull the neutral knob out on the throttle give it full throttle and try to start.
Or you can try the wiggle test while someone is trying to start. Wiggle the yellow connector on top of fuel pump while cranking. Then wiggle the connectors at the crank position sensors while cranking.

The kill switch kills the ignition system but you say you have jumpered this out.

If these don't work you should get a fuel pressure tester to see what kind of fuel pressure you have. Pump only primes only for a few seconds at key on. Pump should run while cranking. Fuel pressure tester should be appx 45-50psi and should hold from a bit once the key is turned off or you quit cranking.

If pressure is good then get Spark checker that can determine if you have spark.

Below are some basic schematics on the systems. Using a 12 volt test light you should be able to test for voltage at all key locations.

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-24-2021, 11:56 AM
flybird flybird is offline
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Thx for your response myajpa,
I have tried to start with full throttle as you said and nothing changed; have determined the fuel pump is priming and has pressure in fuel rails but not getting to the the cylinders. We tried putting fuel in the throttle body and turned over, partly as another way to check for spark, and no change no fire. After getting a few more hints from others, I believe the system or ECM is not receiving info. and then shuts things down, and one thought it the crank sensors were a possible culprit; as said above we checked these and seemed good but think we may not have tested them properly.

I have since found a reputable marine to take a look at it and could do in decent timeframe , so I won’t be able to test further; the marine has called with a preliminary report and wants to do further diagnostics ; the computer didn’t tell them anything. They are leaning towards the crank sensors not working or not working properly and not sending correctly to the ECM , so it shuts everything down.
The problem also becomes that the marine has said these sensors are discontinued and have to be sourced otherwise; used or refurbished. They want to test to confirm this but want to rule out something to do with a part called “reluctor” ; I don’t know what that is .
I will keep you updated when I get the final word.

Thanks again

Does anyone know of a good source for parts on this vintage of boat
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Old 07-24-2021, 03:13 PM
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mtajpa mtajpa is offline
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You did say you checked the fuses on top of the ECM there should be 3 of them. This would be a common problem if MEFI main fuse is blown.

Relector is the rotating part on crankshaft. It is notched and is what creates the Crank Position Sensor magnetic pulse as the notches pass across the CPS end. Maybe not the best description but unless it is completely rusted of it is probably not the issue.

There is a whole section on these sensors.
https://teamtalk.mastercraft.com/showthread.php?t=58122

The crank position sensors are available from this source.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32687845582.html
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Old 07-26-2021, 12:25 PM
flybird flybird is offline
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Just got the latest update, the shop has confirmed the Crank position sensors are good but the ICM is the problem, they believe the ignition multi coil packs are ok but to be conclusive, need to have engine running and do further voltage testing etc; of course this part is also discontinued and the shop has checked all obvious sources , GM & Delco mentioned.
They are checking a few other possibilities and used parts but will leave it to me if nothing turns up easily.
I searched the aliexpress site quickly and nothing turned up but need to spend more time at that, to be sure.
Thanks for the links and Iíve seen other threads with similar issues and will need to read in more depth, one mentioned that they took ecm to shop to have tested and it was good, I am debating whether I take back and try to solve from here but as said, Iím not that mechanically knowledgeable.
I will do more research here on threads.

Thanks for anything further and help so far.
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Old 07-26-2021, 12:37 PM
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bret bret is offline
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Call Technical Services in Syracuse IN and see if they can help with the ICM, maybe or maybe not. Not sure when they got out of building stuff for MC but worth a call.
(574) 457-4004. Ask for Alan Tehan if he's available; if he can't help he maybe able to tell you who can.
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Old 07-27-2021, 10:44 AM
flybird flybird is offline
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Thanks for the lead Bret,
I have contacted TS and waiting to hear back.
My shop has found a used part online but I am searching further to see if anything aftermarket new can be found.
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Old 08-03-2021, 08:00 AM
flybird flybird is offline
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Location: North
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Update :
I found a used icm from an auto wrecker that matched part noís here on TT and online for cross of original; took boat from shop as assume they have checked all other possible causes in their determination of the issue. The used part was not guaranteed to work but took chance and it didnít work. Have tried to find a way to test the icmís myself. Used schematics from mtajpa and Indmar; have power and good ground to the unit and readings from the crank position sensors , but no power coming out of the units to the ECM when cranking. I took off one coil pack to test if power getting to it and no power from one terminal to other but using an engine ground, the test light shows power with ignition on and pulsates when cranking; not sure Iím testing properly but as no power coming out of either unit , I believe both are bad and have already sourced another to try; it has been working recently.

The crossed part numbers did not match exactly and I assumed they may have changed over time as very close 1103966 on my original part and 1103971 on the cross reference from TT and online sources.

Iím still concerned there may be a problem that could be causing the no start, but until I know I have a functioning icm, I will continue in this direction.

If anyone knows how to bench test an ICM unit, it would be appreciated ; online is unclear to me if methods used are correct. One said to use ohm meter across the unit itself or from one side of the ICM pad to the other.
Am I on the right track ?

Thanks for any further help.
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