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  #101  
Old 08-15-2019, 05:57 PM
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mzimme mzimme is offline
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I'm surprised roadster has even adopted the use of a computer. If it were up to him we'd all be typing responses on our typewriters, or better yet, quill pens & animal hides, and sending them to each other via telegram.

Stupid computers don't do anything better than the old way of things... and dagnabbit they use that erlectricity too! Damn pollutin' compooters!
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  #102  
Old 08-15-2019, 10:13 PM
MCAlberta MCAlberta is offline
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This is taken from a Fuel Freedom Foundation article. Although I disagree with some of their stands, such as wanting to burn more natural gas which does nothing for climate change, this info puts into perspective the subsidies that oil companies get...for which we basically foot the bill.


Direct subsidies to the oil industry can be broken down into four distinct categories:

There are tax expenditures, in which the federal government allows oil companies to deduct taxes during the oil-well development process. A prime example of this is the $2.3 billion Intangible Drilling Oil & Gas Deduction subsidy that allows producers to deduct 100 percent of expenses that aren’t directly linked to the final operation of an oil well. Another notable example in action is the Last-In, First Our Accounting for Fossil Fuel Companies subsidy that allows oil companies to undervalue their inventory, reducing their amount of taxable income on the books and taking $1.5 billion out of federal coffers each year.

Then there are the direct spending subsidies, such as the $229 million Inland Waters Transport for Petroleum Subsidy. Usually, the federal government taxes shipping company using waterways a fee proportionate to the tonnage of what they ship. Not so with oil companies. Similar to this is the $107 million Inadequate Administrative Fees for Onshore Drilling Management subsidy that leaves taxpayers holding the bag for Bureau of Land Management costs associated with drilling that would otherwise be covered by the industry.

Next up are royalty relief subsidies, where oil companies carve out exemptions for themselves—usually with the help of lawmakers—to pay significantly lower royalties rates on the oil and gas they extract. For example, the Lost Royalties on Offshore Drilling for Leases Issued from 1996 through 2000 subsidy came as a result of the 1995 “Outer Continental Shelf Deep Water Royalty Relief Act,” something that to this day deprives taxpayers of $1.1 billion each year.

The final type are known as regulatory subsidies. These apply when oil companies are given leniency in fulfilling their regulatory commitments. The most prominent, recent example is the $334 million BP Deduction for Oil Spill Legal Settlement subsidy, where BP was permitted to deduct from its tax bill nearly all the damages they paid to the federal government as a result of the infamous Deepwater Horizon spill.

The scope and specifics of these subsidies may vary widely, but the bottom line is always the same: Oil companies are given favorable tax treatment and subsidized with public dollars. By continuing this practice year after year, decade after decade, it makes breaking oil’s virtual monopoly even harder, and forces us to continue suffering from all the terrible trapping that come with our overwhelming oil dependency.

So the next time someone starts criticizing subsidies going to alternative fuels and vehicles, or renewable energy, keep these oil subsidies in mind. Indeed, as many will claim, the playing field is not level, but not in the way that many imagine. Subsidies to oil companies are one of the reasons that—despite being cheaper, cleaner, and American-made—alternative fuels haven’t more widely replaced oil in the transportation sector. If Americans want to achieve fuel choice and end the oil monopoly, we’re going to have to take a hard look at all the market distortions, including subsidies and tax breaks, that effectively lock in the status quo.

As I mentioned none of the items listed are direct subsidies they are tax breaks. You are also quoting cherry picked exaggerated numbers and incorrect data from a group that readily admits to being against not just oil and gas but all fossil fuels. For example:

Intangible Drilling Costs ($3.5 billion “subsidy” – low estimate is $780 million) – Intangible Drilling Costs are essentially the cost of drilling a new well that have no salvageable value. Currently, most exploration companies are allowed to deduct 100% of the costs in the year they are incurred with the majors able to deduct 70% of the costs immediately with the remaining 30% amortized over 5 years. In what world would money spent that may or may not be recovered be capitalized as an asset?

Each of the tax breaks you listed are provided to almost every industry out there, including renewable or green energy, not just oil and gas.

I also have an issue with their statement “despite being cheaper, cleaner, and American-made—alternative fuels haven’t more widely replaced oil in the transportation sector.

They aren’t cheaper and as far as cleaner goes it’s debatable how much cleaner renewables truly are if you take them cradle to grave like oil and gas emissions are subject to. As a whole the oil & gas industry is one of the most regulated in North America, to a greater extent in Canada.

Finally why are you against Natural Gas, it is the cleanest burning fossil fuel out there, even when fracing is included. Now I will agree the amount of water used for fracing is bad but that is slowly changing with produced water being treated and reused instead of using fresh water.
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  #103  
Old 08-15-2019, 10:52 PM
roadster02 roadster02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzimme View Post
I'm surprised roadster has even adopted the use of a computer. If it were up to him we'd all be typing responses on our typewriters, or better yet, quill pens & animal hides, and sending them to each other via telegram.

Stupid computers don't do anything better than the old way of things... and dagnabbit they use that erlectricity too! Damn pollutin' compooters!
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  #104  
Old 08-16-2019, 07:37 AM
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captain planet captain planet is offline
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Originally Posted by MCAlberta View Post
As I mentioned none of the items listed are direct subsidies they are tax breaks. You are also quoting cherry picked exaggerated numbers and incorrect data from a group that readily admits to being against not just oil and gas but all fossil fuels. For example:

Intangible Drilling Costs ($3.5 billion “subsidy” – low estimate is $780 million) – Intangible Drilling Costs are essentially the cost of drilling a new well that have no salvageable value. Currently, most exploration companies are allowed to deduct 100% of the costs in the year they are incurred with the majors able to deduct 70% of the costs immediately with the remaining 30% amortized over 5 years. In what world would money spent that may or may not be recovered be capitalized as an asset?

Each of the tax breaks you listed are provided to almost every industry out there, including renewable or green energy, not just oil and gas.

I also have an issue with their statement “despite being cheaper, cleaner, and American-made—alternative fuels haven’t more widely replaced oil in the transportation sector.

They aren’t cheaper and as far as cleaner goes it’s debatable how much cleaner renewables truly are if you take them cradle to grave like oil and gas emissions are subject to. As a whole the oil & gas industry is one of the most regulated in North America, to a greater extent in Canada.

Finally why are you against Natural Gas, it is the cleanest burning fossil fuel out there, even when fracing is included. Now I will agree the amount of water used for fracing is bad but that is slowly changing with produced water being treated and reused instead of using fresh water.
Wrong. That group is actually for natural gas consumption for transportation needs, so you're wrong. Their platform is diversity of fuels for transportation and end the monopoly of oil for it. On that basis alone I don't even care for that group, but the info they present is accurate and you can find it in multiple places. Cherry picked, perhaps a little, however the oil industry gets HUGE breaks when they make tens of billions off of us every year. That leaves a huge tax burden on the people. If you think that is OK, then I'll end debating this with you.

As for the comment "it’s debatable how much cleaner renewables truly are"....it was just last week, there was a smog alert because the sun's rays or the wind were just dirty that day. I wish sunlight and wind were cleaner.....

Natural gas still emits CO2, and fracking pumps billions of gallons of 'proprietary chemicals' into the ground to extract it. Great idea, let's poison the water in the ground with chemicals they won't even tell us what they are, sounds awesome.

I'll add this about the oil industry. When BP poisoned the Gulf of Mexico with the deepwater horizon oil spill (caused by cutting corners to save a little money), they bought the company that was in the region that cleaned up oil spills. So, not only did they spill the most oil in history...but then they also made a huge profit cleaning it up.
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  #105  
Old 08-16-2019, 08:08 AM
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Maristar210 Maristar210 is offline
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I think this thread has had enough.
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  #106  
Old 08-16-2019, 10:47 AM
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captain planet captain planet is offline
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Yea, probably. I'd still like to have that Porsche though.
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  #107  
Old 08-16-2019, 02:34 PM
LDA6339 LDA6339 is offline
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I think this thread has had enough.
If Aric was a mod it would have been closed 4 pages ago. #MakeAricAModerator
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  #108  
Old 08-17-2019, 01:48 AM
jjackkrash
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Originally Posted by captain planet View Post

The final type are known as regulatory subsidies. These apply when oil companies are given leniency in fulfilling their regulatory commitments. The most prominent, recent example is the $334 million BP Deduction for Oil Spill Legal Settlement subsidy, where BP was permitted to deduct from its tax bill nearly all the damages they paid to the federal government as a result of the infamous Deepwater Horizon spill.
This is either dishonest or the author does not understand how income tax works. Payment of damages related to a company's business is almost always considered a business expense and deducted to determine the net taxable income of the business. This isn't an oil-company subsidy, it is how the tax code is written for everybody. On a basic level, net taxable income is based on gross revenues minus expenses and capital depreciation.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/b...17/04/05_wood/
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  #109  
Old 08-17-2019, 01:53 AM
jjackkrash
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Originally Posted by MCAlberta View Post
As I mentioned none of the items listed are direct subsidies they are tax breaks.
It is like when you have 5 $20 bills in your pocket, get mugged, and the mugger only takes 2 of the 5 $20 bills. You just got a $60 "subsidy" because the mugger could have taken all of it at non point.
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  #110  
Old Yesterday, 03:11 PM
stig stig is offline
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Originally Posted by captain planet View Post
Cool car. Porsche getting into the EV game. Good to see.
They have been doing hybrids for awhile now. The 918 was amazing and from that we got the 919 which was unstoppable in racing. Check out the nurburgring run with the unrestricted 919 it's a great in car video, can beat an F1 car in some parts.
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